Dave Probert responded to Lloyd:
>How do we know that every time a rock falls, it is according to the same
>mathematical principles?
Because of the qualification "every time", you insure that no one can answer
your question with certainty. Still this does not detract from Lloyd's
point that the operation of much of the cosmos is currently well understood
mechanistically.
At best we can say that every experiment seems
>to confirm this to be so (but even then there are ambiguities as
>we reject some experiments as in error and equip the data we do accept
>with emperical `error bars'. Plus we have to factor in all sorts of
>other fudges to do with non-linear phenomena such as friction.)
I don't think that statistical measurements of error reflects God's
intervention with the underlying mathematical or scientific principles by
which we understand how creation operates. Rather, such variability may
reflect some flexibility in the natural laws, and/or imprecision in our
measurement.
>An infinitessimal number of falling rocks have their trajectories
>evaluated scientifically. At best science can measure what God *tends*
>to do *while* we are watching.
This, then, would be described as a law of nature.
>I admit that God does seem pretty consistent with rocks, but in other
>areas He is definitely more capricious. For instance the weather. Now
>science chalks this apparent inconsistency up to extremely sensitive
>non-linear phenomena, but all that really says is that there are
>phenomena for which the outcome is impossible to determine in advance.
>Other areas of non-determinancy are in aspects of the social sciences
>(aka fuzzy studies), medicine, traffic accidents, warfare, politics,
>product marketing, love, procreation, scientific insight.
Because we cannot accurately predict weather, economics, earthquakes, etc.,
doesn't mean that they do not follow observable laws of nature. Of course,
since we cannot yet predict these things as well as we can predict the
effect of gravity on an object or the chances of the Red Sox or Cubs winning
the World Series :-), it could mean that such phenomena do not adhere to
so-called predictable natural laws. Still, the weather and earthquakes
occur via well understood and described natural laws. Because we cannot
accurately predict the confluence of natural laws that lead to tornadoes,
does not mean that we do not understand the natural laws by which tornadoes
are formed, it just means that we cannot predict certain things about them.
At one time, it was generally believed that seemingly capricious phenomena
such as earthquakes and tornadoes occurred at the whim of God and their
causes were beyond human contemplation. If I remember correctly, in the
early 19th century, a Harvard professor was heavily criticised for proposing
that earthquakes could be explained by natural processes. Because we now
understand the natural causes behind these events, I would not be too hasty
to assign the difficulty in predicting them to be due to God's capriciousness.
>I think the potential error is just as Stephen says.
>We should *not* give the mechanistic model credence over the theological
>one (i.e. that all things are subject to God -- James 4:13-16).
>
>The converse is that we *should* give precedence to the theological
>view over the mechanistic. We should recognize our dependence upon
>God, acknowledging Him as sovereign and displaying gratitude (Rom 1:21,28).
If God is the author of the creation as well as the Bible, and if His glory
and character are revealed through His creative works, and if He sustains
the creation, how can one envision a "theological" model as different from a
"mechanistic" model? I think the problem is in creating an either-or
situation in which one must chose one "model" over the other. It seem to me
that the "models" are best integrated into a single concept of the creation,
its author and its sustainer.
Science, then, can be another way to understand the character of God.
Cheers,
Steve
____________________________________________________________________________
Steven S. Clark, Ph.D. Phone: (608) 263-9137
Associate Professor FAX: (608) 263-4226
Dept. of Human Oncology and email: ssclark@facstaff.wisc.edu
UW Comprehensive Cancer Ctr
University of Wisconsin "It is the glory of God to conceal a
Madison, WI 53792 matter, but the glory of kings to
search out a matter."
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