Re: Re: [asa] health care

George,

I am immediately reminded of the concept that America was founded on
Christian principles. It seems to me your argument may essentially be
founded on that idea. Please note I'm not saying I agree or disagree with
your take on health care. But if America were to dump the idea that its
laws are founded on Christian principles, then there would be no way to
argue there is a moral imperative to be concerned with the physical welfare
of individuals. I think it is clear that secular humanism makes human
individuals disposable.

Indeed, in certain European countries in the 20th century, countries that
rejected law founded on Christian principles, millions perished needlessly.

So I see the atheists who want to dump the influence of Christianity upon my
country as a threat to the common good and to liberty. Burgy would perhaps
say that makes me some sort of fundamentalist. I would disagree here. I
think it was the value system of all the founding fathers. Including
Jefferson and Franklin. So unless one wants to label them as
fundamentalists then fundamentalism is the wrong term.

 Nevertheless, in the 21st century, the cultural left rejects Christianity
as the founding set of principles. And not all Christians agree that
Christian principles should be the foundational precepts.

I think one problem I have with non-Christian ideas is the recognition that
individuals have worth to God because they are made in the image of God.
Many non-Christian systems simply lack this concept. The ancient Greek
and Roman systems definitely lacked the concept. Starting with the
Gregorian reform Christianity overturned the old ways and introduced the
idea of individual rights (about 1035 or so?) and equal rights. So western
civilization is a blend of old classical and Christian beliefs. Yet many
modernists ignore this and see Christians as a threat. We hear that all
the time in the culture war.

So, I find it interesting that you bring this up. Your more left-wing
oriented friends may not like it very much.

Christianity also has something to say about individual responsibility and
individual freedom. I suppose this broaches the arena of ethics too, and
Ted and I may learn something from the conference on genetics and religion
tomorrow.
We are both attending, but I don't know who else will be there.

Cheers,
Dave C

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:42 PM, <gmurphy10@neo.rr.com> wrote:

> While a lot of the details of health care plans are outside the scope of
> science-religion discussions, I don't think the whole area is. 1st,
> Christianity has a lot to say about concern for the physical welfare of
> individuals and society. 2d, the costs of health care in the US today have
> a lot to do with its costs.
>
> & on this, there's a quite good article in the September Atlantic on health
> care in the US. 2 major points the author makes are obvious in retrospect
> but get inadequate attention. 1st, we rely on health insurance to an
> unreasonable extent, expecting it to pay for routine procedures as well as
> emergencies. Can you imagine, the author asks, expecting your car insurance
> to pay for an oil change or tune-up? 2d, in consequence, health insurance
> companies, not people who are treated for illnesses or accidents, are the
> real "customers" of health care providers. In some cases hospitals or
> doctors won't tell a patient ahead of time what a procedure would cost
> because they prsumably won't be paying the bill.
>
> Shalom,
> George
>
> ---- "John Burgeson (ASA member)" <hossradbourne@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If I did not think it was, I would have refrained from posting it.
> >
> > I agree that it is more "Christian" than science though.
> >
> > To the extent that it a reprehensible practice, it seems to be clear
> > that it must be opposed.
> >
> > For instance: A woman is punched out by her husband and goes to the
> > hospital for repair to her broken jaw. If she identifies her husband
> > as the cause, she will get no insurance coverage. If she says it was
> > just an accident, she will. So she lies, and another jerk goes free.
> >
> > On 9/24/09, Jack <drsyme@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > This thread is not even close to being on topic is it?
> > >
> > >
> >
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>
>
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Received on Fri Sep 25 22:24:48 2009