RE: [asa] Re: good atheists?

David said:
"So, seems to me atheists believe there is no justice. Obviously there is no justice in this life and atheists deny you can get it in the next. "

I think this is one of those dangerous religious thoughts. Atheists can push for judgment on earth, because it it's the only place for it, for them. I've seen Christians shy away from earthly judgment, because one day God will do all the judging. In this way, the atheists I describe make this a better place, and more just; while those Christians I describe make it a worse place by removing natural consequences.

This is why we still have a scandal with Christian televangelists who make over a million bucks a year (personal gain). People like John Hagee, TD Jakes, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, etc., who are supposedly in 'ministry.' The church (at large) refuses to make their own accountable. It is an abuse of the first amendment separation of church and state:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

These abusive pastors cry 'persecution' if the IRS even starts to show some interest. Therefore, it is up to the secular's to clean up this abuse. I guess Sen. Grassley tried, and failed:
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080118/grassley-asks-televangelists-again-for-cooperation/index.html

...Bernie

________________________________
From: David Clounch [mailto:david.clounch@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 12:16 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Re: good atheists?

But if Jesus was not God and was instead a religious sect leader who ended-up getting killed because he clashed with the ruling elite, then it makes his death much less noble. And if he never rose from the dead, it makes his life that much more less meaningful, compared to what Christians believe.
That is absolutely logical, Bernie. If Jesus did not rise from the dead then the very best you and I and all our descendants can hope for is to spend the next billion years "pushing up daisies".

I say the very best we could hope for. Think about it - it could be worse. You (we) could meet with justice, the punishment you (we) deserve, having no propitiation for our sins or our sinful condition. (I.e., Our condition of rebellion - rejecting God in general).

That punishment might possibly be conscious existence in some form. Eternal conscious existence. The oblivion of pushing up daisies sounds attractive by comparison.

So, seems to me atheists believe there is no justice. Obviously there is no justice in this life and atheists deny you can get it in the next.

This is why people who reject Jesus and what he did and his rising from the dead, who also say "oh, I'm going to heaven, I'm a GOOD PERSON", are, well, dead wrong? Idiots? What can one reasonably say about them? Even atheism is more logical than kidding ones self that ones own goodness is going to impress God and mitigate justice.
Jesus said no man is good. Is he a liar?

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Received on Wed Sep 9 11:38:41 2009