RE: [asa] Re: good atheists?

I would argue it this way- Christianity is all about reforming. You are called to be 'holy' (good) as God is holy. Look also at the parable of the sheep and goats, for teaching from Jesus.

Christians are also called (by Jesus) to be salt and light- analogies for 'goodness.'

The NT also admonishes Christians to strive for holiness and goodness, such as 'the fruit of the Spirit.'

Eph: 2:8-10, note esp. v.10

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

David said: "The major Christian belief in this area is that no man is good."

That is true, but it is merely the start of the story, not the end. After recognizing this, one is to receive the Holy Spirit and continue on a path of reformation with the goal of becoming holy as God is holy, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

...Bernie

________________________________
From: David Clounch [mailto:david.clounch@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:05 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: ASA LIST
Subject: Re: [asa] Re: good atheists?

>Another response that came to me, regarding "Are atheists good?"
>For Christians, being good is a major pillar of the faith.

I disagree. The major Christian belief in this area is that no man is good.

What Bernie is talking about here is actually the para-Christian cultural belief which CS Lewis calls "Christianity and water"...sort of like watered down scotch. Lewis's point is that **isn't** Christianity. Its a mythology about Christianity.

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> wrote:
Another response that came to me, regarding "Are atheists good?"

For Christians, being good is a major pillar of the faith. So therefore, they use this paradigm to evaluate other religious views- how good are you? Are you "gooder?" It is a reasonable question.

However, atheists seem to have a different pillar. Their pillar is science and reason. So they would ask others, like Christians, "How well do you use logic and science?" It is also a good question.

Evangelical Christians do fall flat on this charge. Admit it. Christian Professor Mark Noll has laid out the case, author of "The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind."
(http://www.amazon.com/Scandal-Evangelical-Mind-Mark-Noll/dp/0802841805/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252082633&sr=8-3)

And yes, there are some smart Christians, just like there are some 'good' atheists. One example of such a group is the ASA. However, please notice this. The ASA was formed out of a need, and they have a niche business being in the 'academic Christian' arena because this arena is so undernourished in churches at large. The churches at large seem to nurture the so called "scandal of the evangelical mind."

I think it is both sad and pathetic when Christian experts, like ANE manuscript expert Kenton Sparks, even admits there is this academic ignorance within churches and even recommends ignorance as a policy, since the material is hard to grasp and if not dealt with correctly could lose souls. I have disgust with anyone who supports a policy of ignorance.

Sparks' otherwise fantastic book:
"Ancient Texts For The Study Of The Hebrew Bible: A Guide To The Background Literature"
http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Texts-Study-Hebrew-Bible/dp/1565634071/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252083023&sr=1-2

..Bernie

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Received on Fri Sep 4 13:25:59 2009