Re: [asa] Jerry Coyne's Confused Attack on Religion Part 2

Hi Gregory,

"It seems you are expanding the conversation by placing Coyne within the context of the 'New Atheist' movement."

Can this be reasonably denied? Coyne's review, published in a mainstream forum, is loaded with New Atheist talking points and even comes to the defense of Dawkins' book, The God Delusion (don't you people understand it was meant to be middlebrow?). The review even excited Myers, as he welcomed Coyne into the NA club.

"I wonder then what role you attribute to John Brockman and how you see the 'Third Culture' - Edge network playing its part? If you would be willing to compare this with what ASA is doing, I'd sure be interested to hear your views about it."

I don't know enough about Brockman, the 'Third Culture,' or Edge to comment in depth. However, based on first impressions, it does come across as a clique that takes itself way too seriously.

Brockman doesn't impress me in his introduction to Coyne's review. He thinks Dawkins, Hitchens, and Myers are "champions of rational thinking." True champions of rational thinking would not behave as propagandists, now would they? What's more, Brockman writes:

"In light of the growing tendency of scientists to speak out about their lack of faith, isn't it now time to ask a few questions?"

LOL. Sound familiar? No? Let's change a couple of words.

"In light of the growing tendency of scientists to speak out about their skepticism of Darwinism, isn't it now time to ask a few questions?"

Sound familiar now? All that's missing is a petition of scientists declaring their lack of faith. But hold on, the NA Movement has something to take its place - polling data!

BTW, the folks posting at the Edge site don't impress me either - note that none of them noticed Coyne conflates an observation with science as a central part of his main argument. That's a Science101 blunder. And they didn't see it.

"For those who are unfamiliar with the Edge Foundation, its mandate is this:

"The mandate of Edge Foundation is to promote inquiry into and discussion of intellectual, philosophical, artistic, and literary issues, as well as to work for the intellectual and social achievement of society."

You'll perhaps notice that the word 'science' is not in this sentence. Yet Brockman has recruited many leading scientists who are also atheists or agnostics to promote the 'third culture' perspective."

Anyone have numbers? What percent of those who have been recruited are Atheists? Agnostics? Deists? Theists? Answering this question might help us get a feel for the intended diversity of this 'Third Culture.'

- Mike

        Hello again Mike,

        It seems you are expanding the conversation by placing Coyne within the context of the 'New Atheist' movement. I wonder then what role you attribute to John Brockman and how you see the 'Third Culture' - Edge network playing its part? If you would be willing to compare this with what ASA is doing, I'd sure be interested to hear your views about it.

        For those who are unfamiliar with the Edge Foundation, its mandate is this:
        "The mandate of Edge Foundation is to promote inquiry into and discussion of intellectual, philosophical, artistic, and literary issues, as well as to work for the intellectual and social achievement of society."

        You'll perhaps notice that the word 'science' is not in this sentence. Yet Brockman has recruited many leading scientists who are also atheists or agnostics to promote the 'third culture' perspective. (http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/)

        This approach would seem to be successful in that it is intentionally enrolling the assistance of anthropologists, psychologists, linguistics, and other social-humanitarian thinkers in dialogue with natural scientists. ASA doesn't seem interested in doing this or hasn't yet figured out how to succeed in such a task (though I am open and glad to be proven wrong on this). The Edge's 'world question center' is an extremely effective way of surveying the views of like-minded people, which again pools the resources of natural scientists, social scientists and humanitarians together. It shows that atheists and agnostics are curious and asking questions. And it is looking more globally-oriented and growing in reach each year...

        Personally, I don't find PZ Myers that effective as a speaker/rhetorician outside of natural sciences, where real the action of the cultural wars in America, which he fuels and benefits from, is actually taking place.

        Gregory

        --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com> wrote:

          From: Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com>
          Subject: Re: [asa] Jerry Coyne's Confused Attack on Religion Part 2
          To: "Schwarzwald" <schwarzwald@gmail.com>, asa@calvin.edu
          Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 3:23 PM

          I agree with your points. Conflict seems to be inevitable. Remember that most of Coyne's essay was just borrowing from the New Atheist script, so Miller is not arguing with just Coyne here. And the New Atheists have been busy chipping away at the Dover decision. This is typically the point where Myers will step in.

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Received on Fri Jan 30 17:27:38 2009