RE: [asa] Louie Giglio

Interesting focus on "God spoke." This takes it literally, as real speech. Does God literally speak things into existence? How does he do that without a mouth, vocal chords, etc.? And who would hear Him? There was no Earth yet. Do the Angels hear him? Do Angels have ears, and also talk vocally by way of vocal chords? I wonder how big God's mouth is. Is it bigger than our sun, which is dwarfed by other stars? If not, God must be physically smaller than his creation. Maybe God's mouth, if it exists materially, is as big as a galaxy?

Also- Jesus is "the Word." The Word became flesh. Does that mean God's words actually came out vocally then became flesh?

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walley [mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:31 PM
To: 'asa'; Dehler, Bernie
Subject: RE: [asa] Louie Giglio

As an interesting aside to this, I heard a pastor once contribute an extension of this argument by saying that according to string theory, the frequency at which all the strings are vibrating is that of the human voice and that they are still resonating from being God's spoken word. Has anyone else heard that and can verify or deny it?

Thanks

John

--- On Tue, 1/27/09, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com> wrote:

> From: Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> Subject: RE: [asa] Louie Giglio
> To: "'asa'" <asa@calvin.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 4:18 PM
> Hi Jon- what does it mean that "Christ is holding us
> together?" Does it mean that he is holding all the
> particles together personally, or could He have created the
> strong and weak nuclear forces for that? I think he botched
> the meaning of the verse. I argued with a Christian about
> this once- as they think God literally and personally holds
> things together, as if the strong and weak force undermines
> the role for God to play.
>
> ...Bernie
> ________________________________
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Jon Tandy
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 6:16 PM
> To: 'asa'
> Subject: RE: [asa] Louie Giglio
>
> Bernie,
>
> I did acknowledge that he probably overstated the case. As
> regards your statement that he uses this as a fulfillment of
> the scripture verse, he does come dangerously close to this
> by asking, "How do (we) know that God literally holds
> us together? We need to go a little deeper into the human
> body..." and then goes into an extended lead-in to the
> subject of laminin. However, after that point, though he
> uses it as an analogy of Christ holding us together, he
> doesn't drive home the point anything like what you
> ascribed to him, as "saying God planted these as signs
> to scientists". (Note, I don't have any particular
> motivation to defend Giglio, but just pointing out that he
> didn't say this. Whether he did elsewhere, or if others
> took his words further than he did, I can't say.)
>
> In fact at the end of that segment, he says, "So
> you're at the toughest place in your life. How can you
> know that God is going to hold you together?" He
> *doesn't* answer the question by saying, you know it
> because there is a somewhat-cross-shaped protein in every
> cell of your body. Rather, he answers it with, "You
> know because there is a cross standing over history, and it
> is looming over this building tonight. It is the place
> where the 'star breather' became the sin bearer.
> Where the 'universe maker' became mankind's
> savior. And it is proof that God doesn't always change
> the circumstances. He did not change them for Jesus on that
> hillside...." And from there, he doesn't really
> make any more of laminin. Seems like fairly basic preaching
> of the cross to me.
>
> Jon Tandy
>
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler,
> Bernie
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 12:26 PM
> To: 'asa'
> Subject: RE: [asa] Louie Giglio
>
> Jon said:
> "For those who might have a strong objection to his
> use of the "laminin parable", really I would have
> to ask whether they might object to the Lord's own use
> of such things as the mustard seed. "The kingdom of
> heaven is like a grain of mustard seed...which indeed is the
> least of all seeds, but when it is grown it is the greatest
> of herbs". We know there are significant scientific
> objections to this analogy that literalists try to step
> around; yet the point was not to open Christ to accusations
> of scientific inaccuracy, but to inform the minds and move
> the hearts of His followers on the nature of the kingdom.
> Giglio's presentation is indeed spiritually moving and
> thus of value, considering the purpose and the audience for
> which it was intended - as long as the analogy isn't
> taken too much further."
>
> My point is that if he would have used Laminin as Jesus
> did, as you say above, that would be fine (we agree
> totally). But he seems to go overboard in saying that it is
> a fulfillment of the scripture verse "Jesus holds all
> things together" as if God did this on purpose to give
> a hint to molecular biologists (just like placing a cross in
> the cosmos for those peering into space). The schematic
> drawing of Laminin does look like a cross- but you have to
> really cherry-pick to get the microscope image. The
> schematic diagram also would not look like a cross if it
> would have been drawn upside-down or sideways- as if there
> is such a thing as drawing upside-down, because there is no
> true "north" with these things. For example- a
> person into warfare could have drawn in sideways and said it
> represented a sword. In this way- it is like seeing the
> face of Mary on the side of a building. Seeing it and
> thinking nice things is one way, but setting up a shrine as
> some Catholics would is overboard. In the same way- these
> could be nice illustrations- but going overboard to saying
> God planted these as signs to scientists. When someone sees
> the face of Jesus on a sandwich, does that mean it is a sign
> from God? Notice the difference in use of illustrations
> with this and Jesus- Jesus didn't use examples of things
> that visually looked like things to explain heavenly things,
> he used everyday experiences to illustrate the heavenly
> kingdom. He didn't say the mustard seed looked like
> anything in heaven- his example was going from very small to
> huge- unbelievably huge from such a small beginning (a
> mustard seed is a small fraction of the size of a bird, but
> the plant from the seed is big enough to support several
> birds).
>
> ...Bernie
>
> ________________________________
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Jon Tandy
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:53 AM
> To: 'asa'
> Subject: [asa] Louie Giglio

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Received on Tue Jan 27 17:02:29 2009