Re: [asa] Darwin only biological evolution? (can anything exist without evolution?)

I think what Moorad is getting at is that biological death is not a form of
evolution because it is an increase in disorder of the system. Actually,
wouldn't we say the same for any increase in entropy?

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>wrote:

> I'm still having difficulty understanding the question.
>
> You say:
> "For instance, must everything die that became a living entity?"
>
> If we were to live forever, I'd suppose we'd need those required inputs to
> also be available forever. Inputs = sun, food, water. Take one of those
> away, and death is the consequence (and there's likely many more required
> inputs than just those). Also, death is a part of life- part of the design
> of life- because without it the Earth would not be sustainable. We'd all be
> tripping over each other. And how could we eat if there was no death? Even
> if we ate things that were alive- they'd then die- unless they then live
> inside us (but then we can't digest it).
>
> When you say:
> "Also, death is death and I see no way one can talk about death evolving."
>
> I think you are referring to my challenge of "show me something existing
> that hasn't evolved."
>
> If so, in this case, death is not an object in the real world. It is an
> absence of life. In other words, you can't grasp death with your senses- it
> is not material or energy. Neither are thoughts and ideas, but they can be
> grasped and manipulated. It is like darkness- not an object, but the
> absence of light.
>
> In a way, death has evolved- see CS Lewis' last chapter in "Mere
> Christianity." Because of Christ, we can now break away from death... that
> is evolution regarding the death-state (in the sense that CS Lewis explains
> it- he uses evolution as an analogy for the gospel and Christian
> life/experience).
>
> ...Bernie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexanian, Moorad [mailto:alexanian@uncw.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:46 AM
> To: Dehler, Bernie; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] Darwin only biological evolution? (can anything exist
> without evolution?)
>
> One can interpret my question as to the origin of death, which must be
> clearly related to the origin of life. For instance, must everything die
> that became a living entity? Also, death is death and I see no way one can
> talk about death evolving.
>
> Moorad
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:37 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] Darwin only biological evolution? (can anything exist
> without evolution?)
>
> Moorad said:
> "In what sense is the death of a living being said to have evolved? Do we
> have to invoke an afterlife?"
>
> I don't understand what you are asking. Can you state your question with
> more explanation so I can attempt to answer?
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexanian, Moorad [mailto:alexanian@uncw.edu]
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:29 PM
> To: Dehler, Bernie; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] Darwin only biological evolution? (can anything exist
> without evolution?)
>
> I think the term "evolve" may say or assume more than our knowledge that
> all that exists is embedded in spacetime. Therefore, there is
> time-development in general but evolving means much more than that mere
> fact. In what sense is the death of a living being said to have evolved? Do
> we have to invoke an afterlife?
>
> Moorad
>
> ________________________________
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of
> Dehler, Bernie [bernie.dehler@intel.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:32 AM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] Darwin only biological evolution? (can anything exist
> without evolution?)
>
> Gregory said:
> "Once one asks questions such as 'when is something not a mimic?' or 'what
> are examples of things that don't evolve?' they will see the limitations and
> boundaries of the concept/percept in question."
>
> I don't think there are any examples what-so-ever of anything that has not
> evolved. If you can think of just one, give an example, and I think I can
> explain to you how it evolved.
>
> ...Bernie
>
>
>
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Received on Wed Jan 14 16:47:27 2009