RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?

Jon,

Sorry for the delay but I have been having problems with my internet.

Yes I do think the evil today is still different from Nimrod and the Romans in that today's evil at least in the Western world is displacing Christianity as the previous prevailing influence. Not that this necessarily establishes anything specific but it is different.

I hope you are right and history proves this fear unfounded but it does seem to me that the type of evil that could potentially be unleashed by Dawkins et al and their militaristic anti-Christian hatred would be unprecedented in history.

Thanks

John

--- On Sun, 1/4/09, Jon Tandy <tandyland@earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Jon Tandy <tandyland@earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 10:56 PM
> John,
>
> Do you think the evil today is more bold and confident now,
> than say under
> the reign of Nimrod, or under the influence of Baal
> worship, or during the
> Roman empire, just to name a few?
>
> I also think there is a historical frame of reference
> problem, in that you
> reference Paley's natural theology as holding
> "sway over all academia".
> That only goes back to the early-mid 1800's. What
> about the thousands of
> years of human history before that? That's my point.
>
> Now, I don't disagree that "evolutionism" has
> made it intellectually
> fashionable to be an atheist, and I don't disagree that
> there is a weakening
> of moral fabric of society since religion has been
> marginalized by
> post-Enlightenment rationalist philosophy. But the
> original premise is
> based on equivocation of what "evolution" means,
> in agreement with the
> warfare model of the atheists. "Evolution as
> science" is a theory of
> explaining the facts of biology. "Evolution as
> anti-theistic philosophy" is
> something completely different, and is not science. The
> latter is
> definitely something to combat from a Christian point of
> view, but Ken Ham
> is neither a scientist nor a philosopher, and he isn't
> helping bring truth
> or light to the debate.
>
> Jon Tandy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Walley [mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 9:15 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu; Jon Tandy
> Subject: RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?
>
>
> I think there is a qualitative difference between the evil
> before Darwin and
> after. Before it was intuitive and intellectually accepted
> that God's power
> and glory was manifest in His creation and Paley's
> natural theology held
> sway over all academia and most of the culture. The
> anti-theists were
> marginalized and couldn't wield too much power or
> influence and were forced
> to cloister away in secret societies that people mostly
> distrusted.
>
> After Darwin it became safe and even fashionable to
> challenge and dismiss
> Paley and gradually this gradually replaced natural
> theology in academia and
> it continues so to this day. Asa result the evil today is
> more bold and more
> confident in its prospects to succeed and likely more
> energized.
>
> I do think Darwinism has had a negative impact on our world
> and I do think
> it is possible that it is the great deception spoken of by
> Jesus in Matthew.
> It is doubly tragic in that it didn't have to be this
> way but due to the
> church not being able to separate out God's mechanism
> of creation from the
> claims of atheism then now we are in the situation we are
> in.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
> --- On Sun, 1/4/09, Jon Tandy
> <tandyland@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > From: Jon Tandy <tandyland@earthlink.net>
> > Subject: RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?
> > To: asa@calvin.edu
> > Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:55 PM He is a good
> guy and a friend,
> > and had some good things to say. On the subject of
> science, he didn't
> > necessarily require a young-earth point of view, and
> he made a typical
> > statement at one point about
> "macro-evolution"
> > being the enemy, not micro-evolution. I didn't
> really get to (or
> > choose to) counteract some of his erroneous statements
> as I might have
> > liked to. I wanted to ask, "So was there no
> abortion, murder,
> > genocide, pornography, prostitution, etc. before
> Charles Darwin? If
> > evolution is the root of all these societal evils, as
> Ken Ham says,
> > how can we account for them before Darwin? And if
> there was another
> > source of evil before Darwin, why is there suddenly a
> different cause
> > afterward?"
> >
> >
> >
> > This is really the first opportunity for me to have
> some public dialog
> > on this among my church friends. I'm hoping after
> this to provide
> > some online resources, and hopefully have some
> continued influence on
> > these subjects.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jon Tandy
> >
> >
> >
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> > [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of
> Nucacids
> > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:36 PM
> > To: asa@calvin.edu
> > Subject: Re: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Jon,
> >
> >
> >
> > Your presentation sounds very interesting and good.
> The seminar idea,
> > to help prepare youth for the challenges to faith as
> they head to
> > college, is also an excellent idea. What is
> disconcerting is the
> > speaker before you, the one who repeated "the
> Answers in Genesis line,
> > essentially that evolution is the root of all modern
> moral evils, and
> > it has to be confronted at all costs." That type
> of message does not
> > prepare Christian youth for college - it sets them up
> for failure and
> > disappointment.
> > I'm glad you were
> > there to balance that message.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Sun Jan 11 21:11:24 2009