Re: [asa] The ASA and the Soft Sciences (ASA focus for the future- dreaming)

Another way is to consider one of my favourite poems God's Grandeur by
Gerrard Manley Hopkins which deals with creation .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray Hogg" <muzhogg@netspace.net.au>
To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] The ASA and the Soft Sciences (ASA focus for the future-
dreaming)

> Hi Michael,
>
> This is close to what Murray is saying!
>
> What Murray is actually saying is that there are ways of reading Genesis
> which by-pass the need to debate endlessly over the connection between
> story and history.
>
> And what Murray likes about the Aboriginal approach (and any approach like
> it) is that it allows us to just READ the text and ask "what is the Holy
> Spirit saying to us?"
>
> For example: what does science have to contribute to the question of Eve
> being made from the rib of Adam? It seems to me that silly questions about
> whether Adam thereafter had one rib short seem to arise from an effort to
> make some historical/scientific sense of the text.
>
> But if those concerns are put aside and one takes a purely narrative
> approach one is free to reflect upon the question: what is the theological
> meaning of this detail? I acknowledge that there isn't a hard and fast
> answer to that - one is actually forced to LISTEN to the Holy Spirit, to
> try to find resonance with the rest of Scripure and Christian Tradition -
> the read the text theologically if you like.
> And when one does, one finds gems like the below from Matthew Henry;
>
> That the woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of
> his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him,
> but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected,
> and near his heart to be beloved. Adam lost a rib, and without any
> diminution to his strength or comeliness (for, doubtless, the flesh was
> closed without a scar); but in lieu thereof he had a help meet for him,
> which abundantly made up his loss: what God takes away from his people he
> will, one way or other, restore with advantage.
>
> What I'm advocating, ultimately, is that we don't have to keep having the
> same discussion about Genesis, over, and over, and over, and over, and
> over, but can actually approach it at a text with a story to tell that is
> pregnant with meaning.
>
> My only reason for introducing the Aboriginal Dreamtime here is that it
> shows how, in practice, some non-western people actually approach the
> telling and retelling of story, how those stories give expression to
> significant aspects of reality, and how those stories concern one's
> present.
> PS: yes, before anybody else points it out: I know that Matthew Henry
> wasn't an Australian Aboriginal - but nor was he a contemporary western
> secularist. And the quote above can be taken as one more example of how
> contemporary westerners could learn from those of a different cultural
> milieu.
> Blessings,
> Murray.
>
> Michael Roberts wrote:
>> To me this kind of dreaming makes the time factor of Genesis irrelevant,
>> as it is not see Genesis as descriptive of the world but evocative. Both
>> deal with the real world.
>>
>> I can give a technical description of the bike I would buy if money was
>> no object - Reynolds 853 tubing for the frame , Shimano XT gears 12-34
>> block to 24, 36, 48 chainrings , brooks saddle etc.
>>
>> Or I can give an evocative description of the equally real bike. A joy to
>> ride. Finely tuned and responsive. Climbs any hills.
>>
>> Both describe the same reality. What I think Murray is saying is that
>> Genesis is more like the second description than the first.
>>
>> Maybe
>>
>> Michael
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dehler, Bernie"
>> <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
>> To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:57 PM
>> Subject: RE: [asa] The ASA and the Soft Sciences (ASA focus for the
>> future- dreaming)
>>
>>
>> Hi Pastor Murray- I'm trying to understand your "dreaming" application to
>> Genesis. I see lots of generalities from you, but really nothing
>> specific. Just to narrow it down, and to be blunt, and to the point, let
>> me focus on just one issue/question.
>>
>> At the last ASA conference, Ted Davis gave a presentation regarding how
>> to teach the different views on origins... interpreting Genesis. There
>> is the YEC, OEC, TE, ID, etc. views. From what I gather, you are saying
>> there is a new and unique way to interpret Genesis that has never been
>> before considered, called "Aboriginal Dreaming." Please answer this one
>> specific question: "How does "dreaming" interpret 'day' in the Genesis
>> account of creation in Gen. ch. 1: Day is 24 hr, day-age, figurative, or
>> other?"
>>
>> Please give a succinct answer in 1 or 2 paragraphs (5 to 10 sentences).
>> Please no essay-length response or sermon.
>>
>> I'm just trying to understand your point about the application of
>> "dreaming" to the interpretation of Genesis.
>>
>> ...Bernie
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
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Received on Wed Jan 7 17:54:33 2009