Re: [asa] The ASA and the Soft Sciences (ASA focus for the future)

First, I don't think there's any way to characterize "people in the ASA" all
together -- there is a diversity of views in the organization as a whole.
Second, I wasn't criticizing the ASA, of which I've been an active member
for about five years. Third, yes -- I think there are some limitations to
the kind of creative, synthetic work that can be done by the ASA, CiS, CTNS,
and other Western faith-science organizations because our Western views of
these issues, IMHO, tend to be too linear.

One example: our debates over scripture tend to polarize into "concordist
vs. accommodationist" and "inerrant vs. errant". This kind of polarity (a)
doesn't even reflect the range of Western theology very well (I don't think
Barth, for example, fits neatly into either category); and (b) probably
could benefit from some non-Western perspectives on how sacred texts
can function in the flow of paradox and contradiction.

I can't understand why it would be controversial at all to suggest that the
two-thirds world Church might have something to teach us about this stuff.

David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>wrote:

> David said:
> "Not that some mystical prophet will arise, but that they might help us
> see past our Western black-and-white approach to the ancient texts"
>
>
>
> I didn't think people in the ASA saw things as black and white.
>
>
>
> David said:
> "…and maybe also help us better understand the limitations of the authority
> of the sciences at the same time"
>
>
>
> You think most people in the ASA have overstated the use of science?
> Obviously some do, because in any organization some people do all kinds of
> wacky things. But as a whole, you think the ASA hasn't limited science
> appropriately? I can't understand why you are even suspecting such a
> thing. Maybe you should give an example.
>
>
>
> I still don't understand why ASA can't be seen as the best possibility of
> figuring out how to reconcile science and religion, and some other place
> could do a better job.
>
>
>
> …Bernie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] *On
> Behalf Of *David Opderbeck
> *Sent:* Monday, January 05, 2009 5:49 AM
> *To:* Murray Hogg
> *Cc:* ASA
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] The ASA and the Soft Sciences (ASA focus for the
> future)
>
>
>
> Bernie -- what Murray is talking about here is exactly the sort of thing I
> had in mind by mentioning non-western cultures. Not that some mystical
> prophet will arise, but that they might help us see past our Western
> black-and-white approach to the ancient texts -- and maybe also help us
> better understand the limitations of the authority of the sciences at the
> same time.
>
>
>
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Murray Hogg <muzhogg@netspace.net.au>
> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'll only offer the observation here that the only people I've ever met who
> offer anything like a fully-orbed, theologically orthodox, scientifically
> informed, and biblically literate resolution of the nexus between evolution
> and Christian faith have been Australian Aboriginal Christians.
>
> This is primarily because of the approach they take to Genesis - treating
> it as "a Dreaming" rather than as a historical narrative. I'm sorry that I
> can't easily flesh that out much more as the Dreaming is a quite profound
> approach to describing reality through the use of narrative which has no
> counterpart in western thought.
>
> The problem for contemporary westerners is that we tend to have a pretty
> stark dichotomy between the notions of "history" and "myth" - with the
> former being "true" and the later "false." But the Dreaming is quite another
> category altogether - it reads like history, but it has more affinity with
> something like a Platonic plane of forms.
>
> As such a Dreaming might read to us like a historical narrative, but it's
> actually a description of present reality, of the proper order of things, so
> to speak. As such to ask the question "did it happen?" is actually a
> category error (and will only result in much shaking of heads amongst
> Aboriginals dismayed by white-fella's ignorance). The only proper question
> is "is it so?" -- which one answers by appeal to the power of the Dreaming
> in question. Very powerful Dreamings have a sort of intuitive obviousness
> which can't be gainsaid and in some respects an Aboriginal might appropriate
> the famous words of CS Lewis to say something like: "I know that this
> Dreaming is true, not because I see it, but because by it I see everything
> else".
>
> As a consequence of this sort of approach to Genesis, Australian
> Aboriginals tend not to find ANY difficulty in holding together evolution
> and the biblical account of creation. The key is not critiquing the science,
> but in understanding the role of creation stories in "ancient" cultures.
> Personally, I think westerners are by and large clueless on this score and,
> as David suggests, we could learn ALOT from our third-world brothers and
> sisters in regards to how creation stories should be appropriated.
>
> Blessings,
> Murray.
>
>
>
>
> Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>
> David, when you say:
> "Maybe some of our brothers and sisters from parts of the world that aren't
> so influenced by rationalism will some day offer some solutions that /we/
> will need to integrate"
>
>
> I'm wondering what you could possibly mean by that. It seems to me that
> the educated western world is at the forefront of integrating science and
> religion; groups such as the ASA. How could another place come up with
> better understanding after groups like ASA have been struggling with it for
> many years- many of the brightest scientists and theologians? Are you
> thinking maybe a mystic or prophet of God will arise to illuminate all of
> this?
>
> …Bernie
>
>
>
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Received on Mon Jan 5 11:58:30 2009