Re: [asa] The ASA and the Soft Sciences (ASA focus for the future)

I'm sorry, that was snippy. By "rationalism" I meant the view that human
reason is the final arbiter of all truth. I think human reason is properly
a part of a Christian approach to knowledge, but it is only a part -- we
have revelation, the Holy Spirit, tradition, experience, etc. And some
basic Christian beliefs about God -- such as the Trinity -- might simply be
beyond the capacity of human reason and language to understand.

David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology

On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 2:22 PM, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>wrote:

> Bernie -- distinguish "rationality" from "rationalism," please. If you
> think the hope for Christian theology is in "rationalism," then you don't
> know what it is.
>
> David W. Opderbeck
> Associate Professor of Law
> Seton Hall University Law School
> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>wrote:
>
>> David said:
>> "I wonder, though, if the assumption that the West will eventually deal
>> with this most effectively is correct. Maybe some of our brothers and
>> sisters from parts of the world that aren't so influenced by rationalism
>> will some day offer some solutions that *we* will need to integrate."
>>
>>
>>
>> I was also shocked by this statement. I think the hope is in
>> rationalism. The hope for Christianity is in organizations like the ASA,
>> who strive to integrate science and religion. It is the two-book approach
>> (God's Word and God's works). Most of evangelical Christianity, seems to
>> me, is rejecting book 2, and to deal with book 2 requires rationality. Are
>> YEC's and OEC's using rationality when they deny biological evolution for
>> humans? Are YEC's dealing with rationalism when they create a new kind of
>> science called "creation science?" If these Christians from other parts of
>> the world are YEC and OEC, then I don't see how they are going to be
>> offering any superior solutions, as if we are going down the wrong path with
>> accepting modern science.
>>
>>
>>
>> You don't see the modern crisis in the faith because you are not
>> advocating biological evolution for humans. Once you do that, you will see
>> the Christian denunciation in your church, and then you'll see why
>> highschoolers and college educated people are leaving the faith because the
>> church at large rejects biological evolution.
>>
>>
>>
>> I never said God was not in control of His church. As others have pointed
>> out, many vibrant Church movements and peoples have disappeared- witness
>> Africa and Turkey. God tells us what to do, but we must do it. Moses was
>> rejected the promised land because of his disobeying and unbelief. We need
>> to open our eyes and start focusing on evangelism to the adults and
>> educated, rather than as most seem to focus on the children (then lose them
>> in the faith as they grow into adults).
>>
>>
>>
>> …Bernie
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] *On
>> Behalf Of *David Opderbeck
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 03, 2009 6:52 AM
>> *To:* Preston Garrison
>> *Cc:* asa
>> *Subject:* Re: [asa] The ASA and the Soft Sciences (ASA focus for the
>> future)
>>
>>
>>
>> Preston, I think you're partly right and partly wrong. Obviously,
>> integrating evolutionary science is an issue for all educated Christians,
>> and the ASA properly has a role here. I wonder, though, if the assumption
>> that the West will eventually deal with this most effectively is correct.
>> Maybe some of our brothers and sisters from parts of the world that aren't
>> so influenced by rationalism will some day offer some solutions that *we*will need to integrate.
>>
>>
>> When we talk about "crisis," I always feel that we're ignoring history as
>> well as theology. The Church has always faced major challenges. Responses
>> always come, but they often take centuries of struggle. God is in control
>> of His Church, against which the gates of Hell will not prevail. This
>> doesn't absolve us of responsibility, of course, but I think it allows us to
>> exercise our responsibilities with some humility and perspective.
>>
>> David W. Opderbeck
>> Associate Professor of Law
>> Seton Hall University Law School
>> Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
>>
>> This is true right now, but the whole world is becoming more highly
>> educated, particularly in places like China and India that are well into the
>> development of a modern economy that can afford more education. That means
>> that the intellectual problems that American evangelicals are facing today
>> about evolution, the relationship of descriptive and theoretical economics
>> to prescriptive economics (Biblical teaching, historical Catholic teaching
>> and other moral voices on economics), environmental issues etc. are quickly
>> going to be facing evangelicals all over the world.
>>
>> As on many other things, they will look to the U.S. because we are both
>> highly educated and have a large evangelical population. It looks like to me
>> that the ASA has a large role to play, because we have a number of people
>> (some of them participate on this list) who have their lives centered on
>> Christ and who are very well informed in multiple areas including the
>> history of Christianity, theology and more than one area of science.
>>
>> There do seem to be areas of science (areas that are only "soft" [meaning
>> not as mature as say physics or chemistry] because their subject matter IS
>> so complex) where the ASA is weak. I suggested that our leaders should look
>> at alliances with evangelical groups in these other areas because some of
>> these big issues obviously involve more than one science. A joint meeting
>> that included sessions on environmental issues with evangelical climate
>> scientists and economists would be fascinating and very useful, after you
>> got past the initial shouting that usually goes on between people speaking
>> different languages. I think simple minded biochemists like me would
>> probably go away thankful that we deal with things as simple and
>> experimentally tractable as mere enzymes and cells, but the long term
>> results for the church would be good. We should pay some attention to our
>> Catholic brothers and sisters, too. They have been doing this kind of thing
>> for a very long time.
>>
>> Preston G.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Received on Sat Jan 3 14:36:18 2009