RE: [asa] "As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God"

What would an atheist find beneficial in Christian teaching? Maybe the ideas of love and forgiveness, because of Christ and the cross. I could see them teaching this to the weak-minded who need it, and couldn't get the message from atheism. How can you forgive someone you really hate, or how can you love someone you really hate? The answer in Christianity is Christ and the cross; don't know how an atheist could do it. Likely, they see no need for it. They'd maybe ask "why not just hate those who deserve it?" Jesus said to love and pray for our enemies; atheists probably say to hate your enemies.

If I were an atheist, I'd suggest teaching the weaker about all that humans can do and accomplish. Look at the beautiful dancer, diver, and smart academics. What goal would you like? You can achieve the ultimate. All the usually positive thinking stuff, by Tony Robbins, or Joel Osteen (who doesn't teach much Christianity anyway; he's like a "Christian version" of Tony Robbins).

But in the case of an inmate who is released from prison and filled with hate for someone, I could see the power of the gospel helping them but not sure of an atheist positive message for them. Maybe the positive atheist message would be thought-control... dwell instead on the future and goals to achieve. But all this is about the weak minded, and inmates. The original article was about Africa.

Africa- what's the problem? I think their number 1 problem is corruption. We also have corruption in the USA, but we also have prosperity to power through most of it. We also cleaned-up a lot through mob wars; fighting the mob. In Africa, it is crippling. I've heard the African government (in some country) not having 24 hr. electricity. Why? They need new generators. They get the money. Where does it go? To those in office, who use it for personal gain. It's hard not to steal when you really need the money and everyone else is doing it- it is ingrained in the culture. Would Christianity help this? Hard to say- as maybe the majority in Africa is "Christian," or close to it. But much of the Christianity is also crippling them because it is the name-it-and-claim-it version exported from America via TBN TV (Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, etc.). They love to show the huge crowds in African crusades coming forward to receive Christ. I've heard from those who minister in Africa that many/most of these going forward do it repetitively. The evangelist loves it because it is a great fund-raiser (like McDonalds saying 10 billion served; evangelists say 10 million saved last year).

...Bernie

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From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of philtill@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:27 AM
To: schwarzwald@gmail.com; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] "As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God"

I think the only "positive" message of New Atheism is freedom from moral restrictions in the here-and-now. If you can drive God out of your conscience, then you are free to do anything you want. (I want to say "any damned thing you want" in the literal sense, but that seems a bit crude!) But there are many things in society to remind the New Atheists about God and what they hate about Him, making them angry so they don't enjoy their freedom. Thus, they feel compelled by anger to drive God completely out of the world. This is just another instantiation of humanity nailing Jesus to the cross, in which we all participated. We wanted to drive God out of the world because when we saw Him we hated Him, because our deeds were evil (John 3). (Thankfully, He chose to die to redeem those who were His enemies!)

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Schwarzwald <schwarzwald@gmail.com>
To: asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:00 am
Subject: Re: [asa] "As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God"
0A
I don't think that's 'the same thing' that was said in this article. And I think Christians, atheists, and others are all in favor of 'taking a stand for education and believe that no one should be taught info.' Alas, what constitutes false varies with the viewpoint.

And what's positive in an atheist worldview? What's a great potential in anything more than a very subjective sense? I think a consistent atheism in the NA sense doesn't avail itself to many positive messages.
On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com<mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>> wrote:
An atheist friend of mine said the same thing- that Christianity could be good for some people, weak-minded people, like prison inmates. I don't get it. If I were an atheist, I'd take a stand for education and believe that no one should be taught false info. Maybe the problem with the atheist is that they don't have a positive narrative to offer, so rather than offer a negative atheist viewpoint they prefer a false positive-Christian viewpoint.&n bsp; If I were an atheist, I'd tell them to focus on a positive atheist message- like developing a positive secular humanist outlook... thinking about the great potentials that humans could achieve.

...Bernie

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From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu<mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu<mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu>] On Behalf Of Nucacids
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:14 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>; philt ill@aol.com<mailto:philtill@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [asa] "As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God"

Yes, that was an excellent article. And for me, this is the type of thing that is far better evidence for the existence of God than any of the popular science or philosophy arguments.

-Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: philtill@aol.com<mailto:philtill@aol.com>
To: asa@calvin.edu<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:05 PM
Subject: [asa] "As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God"

Here's a great article on how the gospel changes people and societies. This flies in the face of charges from Dawkins and other so-called New Atheists. The replies to the article at the bottom are interesting, too.

http://www.timesonlin e.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article5400568.ece<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article5400568.ece>

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Received on Sat Jan 3 12:05:21 2009