RE: [asa] A theology question (imminent return of Christ)

Edward said:
" And the mere fact that interpretations are necessary in order to either try to pull all the loose strings together or acknowledge their looseness (the latter of which is my view), should make one step back and acknowledge that perhaps people are putting too much faith in their interpretations, especially since all these difficulties inherent in each interpretation arise from a plain reading of the texts themselves and have never been solved, not by prayer nor theological cunning. So maybe there's something to be said for agnosticism after all."

In a way, I think we agree with you, only instead of agnosticism on the entire Bible and faith in God, it is agnosticism on certain issues, such as the imminent return of Christ. I see agnostics with an attitude of "don't know/don't care." In regards to the imminent return of Christ, many believers may profess they are ready for it now, but in practical terms I think they are "don't know/don't care." Luther was reported to say something like he believed Christ could return at any time, but he would also plant a tree (for the future). That's dualistic thinking- trying to hold two mutually exclusive thoughts at the same time- and agnostic thinking, practically, I think. (If someone is planting a tree, they don't really believe in the end of the world happening tomorrow... that would be stupid, like arranging the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic.)

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: Edward T. Babinski [mailto:leonardo3@msn.com]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 8:02 PM
To: asa@lists.calvin.edu
Cc: Dehler, Bernie; bsollereder@gmail.com; gmurphy10@neo.rr.com; joe.degroot@gmail.com; muzhogg@netspace.net.au; leonardo3@msn.com; christine_mb_smith@yahoo.com; Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU; schwarzwald@gmail.com; pleuronaia@gmail.com; alexanian@uncw.edu; dopderbeck@gmail.com; jarmstro@qwest.net; drsyme@verizon.net; heddle@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [asa] A theology question (imminent return of Christ)

A word to all,

I've studied Preterism and Dispensationalism. The Preterists agree with me that the predicted time was a generation. The Dispensationalists agree with me that the coming of the son of man would equal the final judgment with the angels gathering the righteous from the world, etc. Put those two points together and you get the modern apocalyptic view that the Bible contains errors.

Neither do you have to be a "skeptic" like Ehrman to note such difficulties. Modern theologians including James D. G. Dunn along with the host of scholars he cites also recognize such difficulties.

Lastly, among Preterists, the Partialists and the Full Preterists don't get along. There's also different schools of Dispensationalism. It's all pretty wild. What I learned after studying such matters is that no matter how much you believe the Bible is inerrant, proving it is another thing, and nobody so far has claimed that their interpretation is inerrant. And the mere fact that interpretations are necessary in order to either try to pull all the loose strings together or acknowledge their looseness (the latter of which is my view), should make one step back and acknowledge that perhaps people are putting too much faith in their interpretations, especially since all these difficulties inherent in each interpretation arise from a plain reading of the texts themselves and have never been solved, not by prayer nor theological cunning. So maybe there's something to be said for agnosticism after all.

"The Lowdown on God's Showdown"
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ed_babinski/

N.T. scholar James D. Tabor lists "New Testament Texts
on the Imminence of the End" on his website, "The
Jewish Roman World of Jesus":
http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jdtabor/christian.html

See also Tabor's article, "Dead Messiahs Who
Don't Return: Millennial Hope and Disappointment in the
Dead Sea Scroll Community"
http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jdtabor/deadmessiahs.html

Jesus of Nazareth: Millenarian Prophet (Minneapolis:
Fortress Press, 1998)

Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium (New York:
Oxford University Press, 1999).

The Apocalyptic Jesus: A Debate (Santa Rosa, CA: Polebridge
Press, 2001)

The Stars Will Fall from Heaven: Cosmic Catastrophe in the
New Testament and Its World -- (Library of New Testament
Studies 347, 2007) delves into conclusive evidence for a
belief in the end of the created world in works written
either just before or during the N.T. period.

In God's Time - The most moderate Evangelical book on
the topic
http://www.ingodstime.com/

The video for the above book is even sold along with N.T.
Wright's videos at this website:
http://www.wesleyministrynetwork.com/

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Received on Tue Oct 21 11:44:31 2008