RE: [asa] Science proves there's no need for God?

Bernie,

One cannot discuss the issue of "science has disproven God" without
clearly defining what science is and who God is. Firstly, science deals
with the purely physical aspect of Nature. Surely, the Christian God of
Scripture is not physical but spiritual. How can then science prove
anything about God? Secondly, science is not in the business of proving
anything but to merely describe the physical aspect of Nature via
experimentation and theory building. Humans are the "detectors" of God
whereas purely physical devices are the detectors or collectors of the
data that is the subject matter of science. Such devices cannot detect
the spiritual and so science has nothing whatsoever to say about God. It
is nonsense to think otherwise.

Moorad

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:38 PM
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] Science proves there's no need for God?

Thanks for all your comments. After my opening statement and his
opening statement, my opponent will post his affirmation essay. I then
have time to ask him questions... that will be fun. Then I post my
essay and he can ask questions. Then we both write a conclusion.

Murray- I'll keep your post for reference. I have many of the same
thoughts. First, I need to see his arguments. I'll try to also address
the best atheist arguments even if he missed them, like from Dawkins.

I think I will change my last line. Re-reading it almost makes it look
like it might appeal to "god of the gaps" which is not my intent. I'm
trying to take the position of 'evolutionary creationist." But I think
it is funny how people claim science disproves God, yet more scientists
believe than disbelieve.

James- about proof, my point is that the affirmative statement (my
opponents) is the one trying to prove it. My counter agrees with you-
neither side can prove it. I have expert quotes for that.

Moorad- good point about the limit of living in "only science" but I
need to stick to the issue of whether, basically, science has disproven
God.

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of gmurphy10@neo.rr.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:34 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Science proves there's no need for God?

In an important sense God is not "necessary" for an understanding of the
world. This is the import of Bonhoeffer's argument that the world can
be understood "though God were not given" becauuse God "lets himself be
pushed out of the world onto a cross." The fullest exposition of this
is Eberhard Juengel's _God as the Mystery of the World" in which he
argues that the "nercessity" of God would in fact impose conditions upon
God. God, he concludes, as the unconditioned ground of the world's
existence is "more than necessary."

Shalom,
George

--- "Dehler wrote:
> I'm entering a yahoo discussion board debate with another person (an
atheist). Here's my planned post (first draft)- any comments? This is
just the opening statement- the meat will come next.
>
> ...Bernie
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> Resolved: Given the success of science, including evolution, there is
> no need for a God as posited by Christians to explain the universe.
>
> <<Opening statement from the negative side.>>
>
> Ultimately, either God exists or He doesn't. No one can either prove
or disprove the existence of God. Nobody. Not one. Therefore, it
logically follows that "the success of science" cannot disprove God.
Therefore, the onus is on the advocate who thinks that there is a
logical proof for demonstrating how "the success of science" can "put
God out of business," so to speak.
>
> I will show that all arguments that try to prove that God is
superfluous (not needed, extraneous) are not logical. In other words,
there are flaws in the logical arguments when trying to prove the thesis
that by using modern science one can disprove the existence of God. In
fact, the great mysteries of the universe actually cause many scientists
to reach out for God, and that is why the majority of modern scientists
and doctors believe in God[1].
>
> Footnotes:
> 1. Robert Roy Britt, "Scientists' Belief in God Varies Starkly by
Discipline," LiveScience, 11 Aug. 2005,
<http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/050811_scientists_god.html>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> [1] Robert Roy Britt, "Scientists' Belief in God Varies Starkly by
Discipline," LiveScience, 11 Aug. 2005,
<http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/050811_scientists_god.html>

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Received on Wed Oct 8 14:08:15 2008