RE: [asa] EU proposed regulation of creationism and ID

But in fairness, by this definition of ID below which they still term
"dangerous", it disqualifies any form of theism and accepts only natural
selection as science.

While granted it may be more properly addressed in philosophy or religion
classes, at least the NAS concedes that TE is not in conflict with science.
That sounds liberal compared to these regulations.

John

"Creationism has many contradictory aspects. The "intelligent design"

theory, which is the latest, more refined version of creationism, does

not deny a certain degree of evolution but claims that this is the work

of a superior intelligence and not natural selection. Though more subtle

in its presentation, the doctrine of intelligent design is no less

dangerous."

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of George Murphy
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:25 PM
To: James Mahaffy; AmericanScientificAffiliation
Subject: Re: [asa] EU proposed regulation of creationism and ID

I appreciate Don's posting of this document. Among other things it
encourages European nations, and especially their educational
authorities,"to firmly oppose the teaching of creationism as a scientific
discipline on an equal footing with the theory of evolution and in general
resist presentation of creationist ideas in any discipline other than
religion;" An explanatory memorandum states that "The aim of this report is
not to question or to fight a belief - the right to freedom of belief does
not permit that. The aim is to warn against certain tendencies to pass off a
belief as science."

It seems clear then that the the concern there is simply to keep creationism
or ID from being taught as science in public schools, just as is the case in
the U.S. & the reason, given in some detail, is that they are bad science.
It does not say that they should not be held as religious beliefs and, in
particular, does not use the loaded word "repress" (or "suppress"), as in
the original report, for what should be done about ID.

I did not say that the earflier statement came from Denyse O'Leary but that
it "sounds like Denyse O'Leary style disinformation." In the same way, I
might say that some preposterous "evidence" for dinosaurs and humans living
at the same time "sounds like Carl Baugh" without attributing it to him.
That Ms. O'Leary promotes disinformation about issues relating to evolution
& creation is beyond question - you need only read her book By Design or
Chance. Consider, e.g., her statement about "Christian evolutionists" on
the last page: "If you are a Christian evolutionist ... Unlike Francis
Schaeffer, who sought a "God who is there," you must be content with a God
who is not there, except as an emotional experience." This is either an
outright lie or an expression of such abyssmal ignorance that she has no
business making her opinions public. Whether or not I "like her" is beside
the point.

Shalom
George
 <http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----

From: "James Mahaffy" < <mailto:Mahaffy@dordt.edu> Mahaffy@dordt.edu>

To: "AmericanScientificAffiliation" < <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
asa@calvin.edu>

Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:27 PM

Subject: Re: [asa] EU proposed regulation of creationism and ID

George,

You may not like Denyse and I think she sometimes tends to wrongly
categorize all ASAers into one basket, but unless you know this information
came from Denyse lets not call her names. I think don just posted the source
for this so it may not be something that is just being spun.

-- 
James Mahaffy ( <mailto:mahaffy@dordt.edu> mahaffy@dordt.edu)
Phone: 712 722-6279
498 4th Ave NE
Biology Department                                     FAX :  712 722-1198
Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
>>> On 9/21/2007 at 4:05 PM, in message
< <mailto:20070921210745.EBF007112ED@gray.dordt.edu>
20070921210745.EBF007112ED@gray.dordt.edu>, "George Murphy" <
<mailto:gmurphy@raex.com> gmurphy@raex.com>
wrote:
> David -
> 
> What's the source of this?  It may be true but it sounds like Denyse
O'Leary 
> 
> style disinformation.
> 
> Shalom
> George
>  <http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/ 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Campbell" < <mailto:pleuronaia@gmail.com>
pleuronaia@gmail.com>
> To: "AmericanScientificAffiliation" < <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 1:35 PM
> Subject: [asa] EU proposed regulation of creationism and ID
> 
> 
>> The information I received claims that a committee report that calls
>> creationism and intelligent design philosophy threats to democracy
>> which must be repressed was passed by the committee on education and
>> culture and is going to the entire EU parliament for possible
>> endorsement in three weeks.
>>
>> I don't know if or how creationism and ID were defined, etc.  Anyone
>> with more info?
>>
>> -- 
>> Dr. David Campbell
>> 425 Scientific Collections
>> University of Alabama
>> "I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams"
>>
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