Re: [asa] Religious brainwashing

I may not be understanding your entire objection below, but it seems to me that
the "motivation accusation" can't be so easily dismissed with hand waving over
the difficulty of how far it should be extended. What if it does turn out to
be demonstrably true that there is a natural advantage conferred with belief in
an afterlife? I would prefer that my faith endure that "suspicion of
motivation" without denying it (if it actually does turn out to be true) which
still leaves one with the logical possibility that the actual truth is not
affected either way by our motivations. That is the atheist's answer to Paul
as well --- even if belief was universal -- that still doesn't prove its truth.
 Just as demonstrating motivation does not prove the belief false. Widespread
belief only demonstrates popularity (and possible evolutionary advantage). Let
every man be a liar -- God would still be faithful. (Romans 3:4)

I like your definition of religion, Paul. That makes good sense.

--Merv

Quoting David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com>:

> The whole "wish fulfillment" meme seems to collapse upon itself. Let's
> grant for argument that belief in an afterlife is a sort of "wish
> fulfillment" meme that has historically conferred some kind of survival
> advantage. We should reasonably then ask, what other common beliefs are in
> the same category? It seems very hard to find a stopping place. Why isn't
> the optimistic belief that it is possible to separate "true" beliefs" from
> mere "wish fulfillment" equally an exercise in wish fulfillment? It could
> certainly confer a survival advantage to believe that one is able to make
> some sort of autonomous, real, integrated judgments about an external
> reality -- those who are able to construct a convincing picture of reality,
> for example, tend to be able to control social structures such as politics
> and religion. Broad judgements about the nature of reality, then --
> including judgments about which broad beliefs are true and which are merely
> wish fulfillment -- cannot be relied upon. The "wish fulfillment" meme
> creates a reduction that ends up opening a gaping epistemic hole.
>
> On 9/21/07, rpaulmason@juno.com <rpaulmason@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > EVERYONE has religious/metaphysical ideas that they live by and pass on to
> > their children. You SHOULDN'T lie, or hit your sister, etc. Any moral
> > instruction or information about the value, purpose and meaning of life -
> is
> > ultimately religious - even if it is that there is no soul or heaven.
> > "Religions" are just a group of people with the same metaphysical ideas.
> >
> > Belief in an afterlife seems actually quite natural and universal - it
> > actually takes some "brainwashing" to erase that belief.
> >
> > Paul

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Received on Fri Sep 21 13:51:13 2007