Re: [asa] Quantum quackery

How do you know that cats are conscious?

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Foster" <bdffoster@charter.net>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Quantum quackery

> My greyhound Lefty has a slightly different technique he uses to render
> cats unconscious. It doesn't work very well. He often has that problem you
> mentioned. To get him to use the same technique on humans, the human would
> have to be an intruder. Otherwise he would just try to get a treat. I'm
> pretty sure Lefty is conscious, at least sometimes. Of course he sleeps 19
> hours/day.
>
> But we all seem to agree that at least there is a difference between
> consciousness and unconsciousness. In other words the observer effect does
> not imply that all matter is conscious.
>
> Brent
>
> ---- Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
> =============
> I think we do need to know whether cats are conscious beings and thus need
> to carry out some experiments to see whether they are;
>
> 1. We can compare their behaviour to plants - non-conscious beings and
> humans - conscious beings, and see whether they have any similarity to
> either. We could also include worms, clams (sorry David), snails, fish,
> frogs, snakes birds, hedgehogs, skunks prairie dogs, dogs, colobus monkeys
> and Chimps as well to see if there is a gradation of consciousness.
>
> 2. We need to see if we can make these cats unconscious, and I suggest
> that,
> as with humans, a fairly serious but not lethal head injury would induce
> unconsciousness into a supposedly conscious animal. Thus the main
> apparatus
> would be a hammer. We could do the tests on both cats and humans, by
> hitting
> them hard on the head. If we kill the human or cat then tough luck, but a
> good number of humans would be rendered unconscious, and may or may not
> come
> round again. If we find we get similar results when we hit a good number
> of
> cats over the head with a hammer then we can reasonably conclude that cats
> are conscious beings.
>
> I hope that this is a suitable experimental method for determining whether
> cats or conscious or not and it seems to fulfil Mooorads requirements of
> experimental techniques.
>
> Michael
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>
> To: "Merv" <mrb22667@kansas.net>; <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:38 PM
> Subject: RE: [asa] Quantum quackery
>
>
>>I cannot even conceive quantum entanglement of a conscious being with
>> purely physical entities. Whether cats are conscious beings or not, is a
>> separate issue.
>>
>> Moorad
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Merv [mailto:mrb22667@kansas.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:05 PM
>> To: Alexanian, Moorad; asa@calvin.edu
>> Subject: Re: [asa] Quantum quackery
>>
>> Conscious beings know they are conscious. But can unconscious beings
>> know they are unconscious? It seems knowledge only allows for one side
>>
>> of this by definition.
>>
>> Do any scientists seriously believe the cat is in a suspended state
>> until an observer looks? Or was Schroedinger just having fun while
>> trying to help others understand wave collapse?
>>
>> --Merv
>>
>>
>> Alexanian, Moorad wrote:
>>> We know if we are alive or dead. If the cat is equally conscious,
>> wouldn't the cat know if it is alive or dead also?
>>>
>>>
>>> Moorad
>>>
>>
>>
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Received on Thu Sep 20 17:48:48 2007