Re: [asa] Can God Love Darwin, Too?

On 9/12/07, David Heddle <heddle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Let's be clear, Mirecki resigned as chairman. He did not resign from his
> faculty position.

Your point?

> Now I don't get your point. People called for Mirecki to do this or that.
> People disavowed Butz. So what? Well they should. The point was that neither
> university is "seen" as the manifestation of one of its controversial profs.
> Likewise, for ISU, vis-à-vis Gonzalez.

Mirecki stepped down for the good of the university.

> I really don't know how you could, with all sincerity, argue that Avalos did
> not have Gonzalez specifically in mind. Do you actually believe he would

I did not argue this.

> have circulated an anti-ID petition if Gonzalez had not been at ISU? True, I
> cannot prove otherwise, but while I'm willing to accept that Jesus walked on
> water by faith, the notion that Avalos was not targeting Gonzalez, that he
> just coincidentally decided to create an anti-ID petition, would stretch my
> faith beyond the elastic limit.

Again you excel at constructing strawmen.

> I believe Avalos was trying to influence the upcoming tenure decision, and
> his behavior was highly irregular. When Avalos was coming up for

You are of course to believe this but there is just little if nothing
to support your belief.

> tenure/promotion, do you think it would have been proper for a petition to
> be circulated warning about anti-religious sentiment in the religious
> studies department? Or do you think the proper behavior under those

People are free to circulate petitions but perhaps the coincidence
between the timing and Gonzalez coming up for tenure was just that.
Just look at the history of the petition. Do some homework and perhaps
we can avoid silly accusations that have no foundation in known fact.

> circumstances is to let the review process do its job?

Begging the question again...

>
> On 9/12/07, PvM <pvm.pandas@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 9/12/07, David Heddle <heddle@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > You are right, the claim was not that granting tenure to Gonzalez would
> make
> > > ISU an ID university, the claim you made was much stronger, that
> Gonzalez
> > > was already causing "ISU to be seen as an ID school."
> >
> > Which is why the petition, arguably, was submitted. Although, not as
> > much with reference to Gonzalez but to a much larger issue of
> > Intelligent Design and the 'abuse of science'.
> >
> > >
> > > One person's strawmen are another person's counter-examples, I suppose.
> I am
> > > not sure why you can't get the point about Mirecki. To summarize:
> >
> > > One professor (Mirecki) writing like a 10 year old did not cause UK to
> be
> > > seen as a university of prepubescent professors.
> >
> > Really... And yet Mirecki resigned urged on by his colleagues...
> > Countless pundits called for Mirecki's resignation.
> >
> > > One professor (Avalos) attempting to improperly influence the tenure
> process
> > > does not make ISU seen a university where professors engage in witch
> hunts.
> >
> > And yet we have no evidence that Avalos attempted to influence the
> > tenure process, let alone improperly. Your accusations just have no
> > relevance to fact.
> >
> > You are still missing the point. People, worried by Intelligent Design
> > and worried by how the DI was using the name of ISU to promote its
> > nonsense, decided to speak out.
> >
> > <quote>We, the undersigned faculty members at Iowa State University,
> > reject all attempts to represent Intelligent Design as a scientific
> > endeavor. Methodical naturalism, the view that natural phenomena can
> > be explained without reference to supernatural beings or events, is
> > the foundation of the natural sciences. …Whether one believes in a
> > creator or not, views regarding a supernatural creator are, by their
> > very nature, claims of religious faith, and so not within the scope or
> > abilities of science.</quote>
> >
> > As someone pointed out "The text of the petition is consistent with
> > statements published by the National Academies of Science, the
> > American Association for the Advancement of Science, many other
> > scientific organizations, and a federal judge."
> >
> > http://www.ochuk.com/?p=1260
> >
> >
> > So perhaps you can explain to us how you reached your 'conclusions'
> > about Avalos, the tenure process and the 'improper nature' of Avalos'
> > actions?
> >
> > <quote>Likewise, one professor (Gonzalez) writing pro-ID books did not
> > cause ISU to be seen as an ID university.</quote>
> >
> > So you claim, and yet that is what some of those working at ISU
> > feared. Indeed, the work by Gonzalez and the ISU affiliation was used
> > by ID proponents to further their 'cause'.
> >
> > Nuff said, Mirecki apologized, and resigned as department chair
> > voluntarily on the recommendation of the department faculty.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mirecki
> >
> > Mirecki also apologized for his words and canceled the class, some
> > pundits however continued to call for his resignation.
> >
> > As to your other 'examples'
> >
> > <quote>Butz's remarks have evoked the ire of a considerable majority
> > of Northwestern affiliates, and the university's president, Henry
> > Bienen, issued a statement condemning Butz's viewpoints, saying they
> > are an "embarrassment to Northwestern."
> >
> > Sixty-one of Butz's own colleagues in the department of electrical
> > engineering and computer science published an official censure in
> > February, 2006, calling for Butz to "leave our Department and our
> > University and stop trading on our reputation for academic
> > excellence."[1] The Never Again Campaign[2] has over 10,000 signatures
> > on their Never Again Petition, which asks "that the Northwestern
> > community take decisive action to sever the name of our university
> > from Arthur Butz's bald denial of history"[3].
> > </quote>
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Butz
> >
>
>

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Received on Thu Sep 13 23:24:25 2007