Re: [asa] Behe on TE vs. Darwinism....

Again, you seem to be taking this too personally without attempting to
familiarize yourself with the argument made.
Yes we should be careful about any kind of misleading speak, your point being?

Is the critique I cited talking in general terms? Certainly even the
quote I provided would be hard to interpret as such...

On 7/27/07, David Opderbeck <dopderbeck@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pim said: Luckily this is not about you but about Behe's position and
> arguments.
> > Sure, 'design' is always a possibility but we have to be careful that
> > design in ID speak means something very specific
>
> The problem is that the critique you cited is made in general terms:
> "Design and Common Descent are not compatible." Therefore, it is "about
> me," and about everyone else who believes in both "common descent" and
> "design."
>
> Just as we need to be careful about ID-speak, we also need to be careful
> about materialist-speak, by which "Common Descent" is defined to mean
> "without God's involvement in any way."
>
> This I will grant, though: Behe and the ID movement are equally culpable by
> making "design" mean something different than regular old "creation."
>
>
> On 7/27/07, PvM <pvm.pandas@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Luckily this is not about you but about Behe's position and arguments.
> > Sure, 'design' is always a possibility but we have to be careful that
> > design in ID speak means something very specific and although some may
> > be tempted or misled by the unfortunate choices by ID proponents of
> > conflating terminologies such as complexity and design, one approach
> > of piercing this thin veil of scientific 'respectability' is by
> > exposing the inherent contradictions in the arguments made.
> > Recently Behe seems to be on the record that the history of life can
> > be fully continuous and that it is during the act of creation where
> > all 'design' took place. Of course, such a position and the position
> > that there exists an 'edge of evolution' anytime something
> > interesting is supposed to happen are self contradictory.
> >
> > In the end, it all seems to come down to a confusion amongst ID
> > proponents about the meaning of the term 'random' which is not
> > equivalent to 'without purpose'.
> >
> > In spite of all this, Behe's 'contribution' shows that ID as a
> > scientific concept remains vacuous.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/27/07, David Opderbeck < dopderbeck@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > But of course, that's only if "design" means what Korthof says Behe says
> it
> > > means. I'm not so sure that is how Behe would define it. In fact, I'm
> > > pretty sure Behe would not define design as " genetic discontinuities."
> The
> > > sorts of supposed discontinuities Behe points to are at structural and
> > > process levels, not at the genetic level.
> > >
> > > In any event, even if Behe argues that Design is evidenced by
> > > discontinuities of some sort, and such discontinuities don't in fact
> exist,
> > > it does not follow that there is no "design." It only means Behe's
> > > definition / proof of design doesn't work. Neither Behe nor Korthof are
> > > empowered to define for me what "design" should mean.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/27/07, PvM < pvm.pandas@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Gert Korthof has reviewed Behe's latest 'The Edge of Evolution' a
> > > > http://home.planet.nl/~gkorthof/korthof86.htm
> > > >
> > > > "Common Descent is based on genetic continuity in the history of life
> > > > on earth. Design, according to Michael Behe, is based on genetic
> > > > discontinuities in the Tree of Life. Therefore, Design and Common
> > > > Descent are not compatible. Make your choice: it is either Design or
> > > > Common Descent. Contrary to Behe, both cannot be true."
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> > > > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

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Received on Fri Jul 27 19:33:12 2007