Hi Wendee,
Yes, I agree that part of the big tent strategy is to sell more books. If the majority OEC-IDists told the YEC-IDists to take a hike, the IDM's fan base would shrink. Some people keep waiting for Paul Nelson's Uncommon Descent monograph from UofChicago series, to be published. Of course, the Debmski-O`Leary UD website is a play on words of Nelson's title, something that is supposed, by the expectations of several IDists according to their publications, to shake up the origins debate. I'm not holding my breath.
The sentence about IDM being a 'classic religio-political movement' I disagree with and have studied in some depth. And as someone who actually studies social movements, i.e. not just an armchair critic of the IDM, I would suggest you try to find a more objective approach. There are some IDists who are obviously 'doing science,' though it may not fit the Universal Science definition that is promoted by scientistic ideology, and those who argue 'design' has no place in any science forever, end of story, case closed (which violates, among other things, the principle of provisionality).
As for the interesting question, do we have the same one in mind? I asked: Where/when do TEs/ECs part company with Darwin? Is this a question you are willing to address? If so, and if you actively part company with Darwin or with neo-Darwinism, then you'll quickly find you have things in common with many IDists. This needn't mean you would subscribe to ID - I certainly don't, but like George, I'm not trained in information theory, probability theory or other features in their scientific claims and so can't pass judgement on them. One can certainly accept aspects of evolutionary theory (which, as an evolutionary biologist, you surely do!), even Darwinian evolution, without subscribing to Darwinism (as ideology). That is, unless you think Darwinism=evolutionary biology, in which case some linguistic upgrading would be necessary. But is Darwin really still comprehensive, up-to-date, cutting edge, or would you call your evolutionary perspective something post-Darwinian,
something that improves upon Darwin's pre-genetics views?
Regards,
Gregory
WENDEE HOLTCAMP <wholtcamp@houston.rr.com> wrote:
Gregory wrote:
Let it be noted that none of the three persons I mentioned are theologians, so what George is really saying: 'Come into my playground, let's play fairly!' :-) How about we just take any one of those three persons and compare the number of books sold in the past five years with the number of books sold by George, or for that matter any other TE? (Francis Collins would likely top the list for TE's, even for EC's - evolutionary creationists?)
Interesting since I’m a TE about to write a book… Do you think that part of the reason IDers employ a big tent strategy is because they want to sell more books? I’m utterly convinced. Not just sell more books but attract more to their movement, because that means more money and more political power. ID is a classic religio-political movement, not driven by scientific inquiry and not driven by any quest for truth or for God.
John has pointed out that Behe's views are in some ways compatible with some features of TE/EC, but that he disagrees with Darwinian evolution and seeks to expose 'Darwinian fancies.' It would be a much more balanced conversation for TEs/ECs and TNs of they would point out Darwinism's weak points and even his errors, rather than contributing to the myth of Darwin's all-greatness, as the Brights do. Where/when do TEs/ECs part company with Darwin?
This is an interesting question I’m interested in also. I think that they are anti-science in that they align science with materialism.
Wendee
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Received on Tue Jul 24 22:28:41 2007
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