RE: [asa] some questions on doctrinal differences

If "Christ gave the church the authority to forgive sins" is so, then the scribes and the Pharisees were wrong in saying that God alone can forgive sins. Is that so?

On the issue of faith vs. works, I am 100% on the side of faith; otherwise, man will evaluate who and what sort of work people do. Man becomes the judge of man and not God. Herein lies the reason why Marxists spoke so disparagingly of religion. Therefore, Marxism became a man-made "religion" to control the lives of all those unfortunate to be under their rule.

Regarding the Lord's Supper (Luke 22), I see the words "do this in remembrance of Me."

14 When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him.

15 And He said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;

16 for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

17 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, "Take this and share it among yourselves;

18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes."

19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

21 "But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table.

22 "For indeed, the Son of Man is going as it has been determined; but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!"

23 And they began to discuss among themselves which one of them it might be who was going to do this thing.

I suppose it is better to believe in the transubstantiation than what I recall reading in the teachings of George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff (1866?-1949) that one had to actually eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus.

Moorad

________________________________

From: George Murphy [mailto:gmurphy@raex.com]
Sent: Fri 7/20/2007 12:04 PM
To: Alexanian, Moorad; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] some questions on doctrinal differences

Give me a break!

The notion that "there is no need of leadership" hardly accords with the
picture of the church we have in the NT & having leaders (or a leader) in no
way conflicts with the unique mediatoral role of Christ. John 20:22-23
makes it clear that Christ gave the church the authority to forgive sins.
Transubstantiation itself - as distinguished from the idea that the mass is
a new sacrifice of Christ - need not be in conflict with the unique
sacrifice of Christ.

Of course that does not mean that the Roman concepts of papal authority &
jurisdiction, penance or the Eucharist are immune from criticism. I would
not accept any of these without some qualification. But leave off this type
of ill-informed & unhelpful nonsense.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>
To: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: [asa] some questions on doctrinal differences

I sent the following letter to the Providence Journal, which was not
printed. I spent part of my summer in Providence, RI. I enclose it here not
to be critical of the Catholic Church but to indicate, in answer to Wendee,
what to me the essence of the Christian faith is.

Moorad

Some of the practices of the Roman Catholic Church are not biblically based,
"Pope cites 'defects' in other Christian faiths," July 11.

There is not need of church leadership for salvation in the Christian faith.
"For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5.

Only God can forgive sins, man, even priests, cannot. "Seeing their faith,
He said, 'Friend, your sins are forgiven you.' The scribes and the
Pharisees began to reason, saying, 'Who is this man who speaks blasphemies?
Who can forgive sins, but God alone?' "Luke 5:20-21.

Transubstantiation, bread and grape wine are converted into Christ's body
and blood, is not consistent with the following verse, "For Christ also died
for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to
God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;" 1
Peter 3:18. See, also, Luke 22:14-23.

________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of George Murphy
Sent: Fri 7/20/2007 8:45 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] some questions on doctrinal differences

Wendee -

The site you reference is a poor resource. Anything that begins by
stating
that Roman Catholicism is non-Christian is in pretty dubious territory.
(Yes, I believe that the Doctrine of Justification by grace through
faith,
as stated in Article 4 of the Augsburg Confession, is correct.)
Insisting
that Jesus was raised "physically" (as distinguished from "bodily")
is at
best careless - cf. I Cor.15:44. Relegating the Doctrine of the
Trinity to
secondary status, while monotheism is said to be primary, is another
serious
problem. & saying that "women pastors" is heretical is nonsense. &
there
are other problems.

I gather that what you're looking for is a brief list of issues that
have
been divisive in the history of the church rather than (like that
site) a
list of rights & wrongs. As you know, sometimes relatively trivial
issues
have been divisive so it's hard to know just how far to go in making
such a
list. But looking at the broad picture of church history, I would list:

The divinity of Christ and the Trinity (I Nicea)

The nature(s) & person of Christ (Chalcedon & other councils)

Papal authority (the East-West schism)

Justification (the Reformation)

Baptism (post-Reformation) (This may seem like an odd thing to list
but the
refusal of large groups of Christians today to recognize the validity
of the
baptisms of other Christians by its very nature makes genuine church
fellowship impossible.)

This is off the top of my head & certainly other important doctrinal
matters
could be listed. The question of what matters are necessarily "church
dividing" (kirchentrennende) has of course been discussed in ecumenical
dialogues.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

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Received on Fri Jul 20 14:15:33 2007