Re: [asa] Review of Behe in Books and Culture

Just as an aside, *this* thread is an illustration of this forum at its very
best! From Behe's current book, to different perspectives on the history of
TE thought, to determinism and quantum mechanics, without any nastiness....
cool!

On 7/12/07, Alexanian, Moorad <alexanian@uncw.edu> wrote:
>
> The many-world interpretation of quantum mechanics avoids the notion of
> the collapse of the wave function. However, it may have its own
> unpleasantness.
>
>
> Moorad
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of Iain Strachan
> Sent: Thu 7/12/2007 8:34 AM
> To: Don Winterstein
> Cc: asa
> Subject: Re: [asa] Review of Behe in Books and Culture
>
>
> The collapse of the wave function is one of those deep philosophical
> questions that are unresolved.
>
> Some hold that it is to do with consciousness. The collapse (or partial
> collapse) of the wave function would correspond to a sampling of the
> probability distribution at any given time. But that sampling and what is
> sampled depends on the observer. In the Schrodinger's cat paradox, if a
> person inside the room opens the door and observes the state of the cat
> (dead or alive) then for that observer, the wave function has
> collapsed. But for a person outside the room in which the person is
> observing the cat, the wave function has not yet collapsed.
>
> I suppose one might say that if there is an objective reality at all, it
> might correspond to an omnipotent observer sampling the probability
> distribution of the entire universe? But I must admit the subject is very
> confusing. Is it God who seeds the random number generator that samples the
> distribution to give the state of the universe as it is? If so, then if so
> desired, the omnipotent sampler could make anything happen, no matter how
> improbable, provided the probability was finite.
>
> Iain
>
>
> On 7/12/07, Don Winterstein <dfwinterstein@msn.com> wrote:
>
> "...The underlying Schrodinger equation for the wave function IS
> completely deterministic...."
>
> Solutions to the Schroedinger equation give the wave functions but
> say nothing about how the wave functions collapse in particular cases. What
> this means, according to the accepted interpretation, is that the
> probability distribution is indeed strictly determined, but how the event
> turns out is undetermined: Where the event will lie on the probability
> distribution cannot be predicted.
>
> It's the probability distribution that is determined, not the
> outcome of a given event.
>
> The argument is that God can then force an outcome--cause the event
> to lie at a location he desires--without violating any law of
> physics. Those who prefer that God restrict his activity to this sort of
> manipulation do so because they like to have God controlling outcomes but
> don't like to have him violating laws of nature.
>
>
> Don
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Iain Strachan <mailto:igd.strachan@gmail.com>
> To: Michael Roberts <mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk
> >
> Cc: Ted Davis <mailto:TDavis@messiah.edu> ; asa <mailto:
> asa@calvin.edu> ; Louise Margaret Freeman <mailto:lfreeman@mbc.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Review of Behe in Books and Culture
>
> I must say I have a problem with this idea of God
> intervening "at the quantum level" - perhaps subtly biassing the dice throws
> in ways we can't detect.
>
> Despite the fact that from the observer's point of view it
> looks like the collapse of the wave function is probabilistic, nonetheless
> the underlying Schrodinger equation for the wave function IS completely
> deterministic (it's just a second order PDE) and it could therefore be
> argued that the time-evolution of the wave-function of the universe is not
> subject to being tweaked.
>
> Iain
>
> -----------
>
>
>
>
> --
> -----------
> After the game, the King and the pawn go back in the same box.
>
> - Italian Proverb
> -----------
>
>
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Received on Thu Jul 12 10:02:33 2007