Re: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?

From a Christian standpoint God sustaining & cooperating with creation is
always in play.

But shifting the issue now to "who or what does the experiments?" seems to
me frankly just as a more implausible attempt to avoid the obvious. Suppose
an experimental physicist went into her lab every morning & found set up an
experiment in her area of interest with different initial conditions, all
set to go at the push of a button. (Of course the latter feature messes up
the analogy a bit but I don't think critically.) At the end of the year she
has 260 data points (with a 5 day work week!) Does it make any difference
who snuck in and set up the experiments?

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>
To: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>; "Michael Roberts"
<michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?

Of course, it is clear who does the experiments in physics and chemistry.
BTW, who does the experiments in paleontology or astrophysics and more so in
cosmology? Is here where God sustaining the creation comes more into play?

Moorad

________________________________

From: George Murphy [mailto:gmurphy@raex.com]
Sent: Mon 9/11/2006 4:49 PM
To: Alexanian, Moorad; Michael Roberts; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?

Moorad -

I have never objected to calling some areas of science historical or even in
saying that there are some differences between them & those which make more
direct use of laboratory experiments. What I have repeatedly argued is that
there is no _fundamental_ difference between a science like paleontology or
astrophysics and something like chemistry because of the historical
character of the former. Cosmology needs special consideration but that's
because of the uniqueness of its object of study, not its historical
character.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>
To: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>; "George Murphy"
<gmurphy@raex.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?

According to your views, one ought to dispense altogether of the notion
of historical sciences and refer to all as experimental science.
Therefore, experimental science tells us definitely that O.J. Simpson
did it and history has nothing to say about it.

Moorad

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Roberts [mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:29 AM
To: George Murphy; Alexanian, Moorad; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?

I gave up a long time ago. It is time Moorad took a little time to learn

about and understand historical science.

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>
To: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:17 AM
Subject: Re: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?

>I give up. Clearly you're deeply committed to the belief that there is
a
>basic distinction between "historical sciences" and sciences such as
>physics )in spite of the fact that one of the branches of physics is an

>historical science.)
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>
> To: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 8:22 PM
> Subject: RE: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?
>
>
> George,
>
>
>
> I already indicated in a previous post that if we observe suns at
> different stages of their lifetime, then we could surmise the
historical
> development of a particular sun. Of course, that did not stop us from
> developing nuclear/hydrodynamic models of suns, which was strongly
linked
> to the development of nuclear weapons.
>
>
>
> I suppose the same could be said of the history of life on earth if
one
> could make observations of such developments in other planets. Of
course,
> this will not stop scientists from attempting to "create" life in the
> laboratory, which would be the best guess of how life arises in
general.
>
>
>
> Parev (Armenian for peace)
>
>
> Moorad
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: George Murphy [mailto:gmurphy@raex.com]
> Sent: Sat 9/9/2006 7:38 PM
> To: Alexanian, Moorad; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>
> To: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 5:07 PM
> Subject: RE: [asa] What causes students to move from faith?
>
>
> It may be best to characterize paleontology & astrophysics as
> observational
> sciences that use the results of experimental sciences to make sense
of
> their observations. Certainly, astronomy is the best example of an
> observational science.
>
> Why might this be best? I thought we had agreed that paleontology &
> astrophysics could be considered experimental sciences because
"Nature"
> has
> provided them with a great number of relevant entities (fossils, stars
&c)
> under different conditions & thus in a sense "done the experiments"
for
> them. If this is not the case, can you explain why? If it is the
case,
> can
> you explain why your restatement above is preferable.
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
>
>
>
>
>
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>

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Received on Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:11:18 -0400