Re: Kurt Wise to replace Dembski at Southern

This probably highlights the major weakness of much evangelicalism. The
centre of faith is the Bible - the inerrant Word and not Jesus Christ -
the Incarnate Word. The incarnate word has priority over the written word
and also the Gospel about the Incarnate Word was proclaimed for 20 years
before any NT writings were produced.

If we start with the Bible and not Christ we end with all the problems of
YEC. Another problem is that many see each part of the Bible on the same
level and value. The NT is more important than the OT and the Gospels most
important of all.

As for inerrancy I baulk at it yet I know I am very close to it!!

Michael

PS Dawkins article on Wise was wise.

PPS do I sound like GM?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Foster" <bdffoster@charter.net>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kurt Wise to replace Dembski at Southern

>I am a former Southern Baptist. I joined an American Baptist church after I
>moved a year ago. While I was still attending an SB church, our Sunday
>School class did a study on origins. The study material was published by
>Lifeway which is affiliated with SBC. Although the study was mostly
>non-commital, avoiding the "E" word and age of the earth, it featured a
>very pro-YEC article by Kurt Wise. Before the study began I called our
>teacher and our pastor (separately) to discuss it. The pastor was very
>unsympathetic to any non-literal interpretations of scripture, regardless
>of scientific evidence. The Sunday School teacher was more open minded, but
>still very pro-YEC. He actually did an excellent job of sticking to the
>spiritual aspects of creation and avoiding division. I wrote a letter to
>Lifeway criticizing their study material. They responded with a polite
>rebuke suggesting that I have a lot to learn. Whenever the subject of Kurt
>wise comes up I unfortunately have to agree wi!
> th much of what Richard Dawkins wrote about him:
> http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=dawkins_21_4
>
> By the way Bob, in my research of Baptist denominations I came across the
> rantings...uh..I mean writings of a fellow named Dave Flick. He is a
> former Southern Baptist, and I believe a graduate of the Louisville
> seminary, whose opinions of the SBC are very much in line with yours. Here
> are some examples:
> http://www.baptistlife.com/flick/Ralph%20Elliott.htm
> http://www.baptistlife.com/flick/whymainstream.htm
> One of my biggest problems with the SBC is that, in my opinion they
> worship scripture. Although I have an extremely high regard for the Bible,
> and I'm not convinced of any specific errors, I think to make inerrancy an
> article of faith as the SBC has done, is inconsistant with traditional
> Baptist beliefs in the sufficiency of grace alone.
>
> Brent
>
> ---- Robert Schneider <rjschn39@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> =============
> Wayne,
>
> Several of my Baptist friends, most of them people I got to know when I
> taught at Berea College in Kentucky, graduated from SBTS in the old days,
> pre-80s, when it was the flagship seminary in the SBC. They loved the
> school and their teachers. The faculty was excellent and open-minded and
> encouraged students to think for themselves. Acceptance of evolution was
> not a problem for many. That all changed when the fundamentalists took
> over the board of trustees, and a purge of moderate faculty ensued. Some
> formed another seminary; others went to schools like Fuller or the Brite
> School at TCU. What happened to Southern Baptist is truly a tragedy.
> Once Albert Mohler took control, there has been an increasingly
> ideological bent. The "Darwinism" stuff is no surprise. YEC is firmly
> entrenched there. The scary part is that they are training a cadre of
> like-minded men to pastor churches. I know so many older Baptists,
> ordained and loving their tradition, who have left the SBC. !
> Some no longer call themselves Baptists, rather simply Christians. And
> they grieve. I suggested to one of them that they compile a "Baptist Book
> of Martyrs."
>
> When I encounter stories like those of my friends, I recall that for the
> medieval theologians, the twin offspring of the original sin of
> disobedience were lust for power and greed. Among those who take over
> denominations and insist on conformity or else, I think they are conjoined
> twins.
>
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dawsonzhu@aol.com
> To: janmatch@earthlink.net ; asa@calvin.edu
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 8:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Kurt Wise to replace Dembski at Southern
>
>
> Janice posted the following quote from Kurt Wise:
>
>
> "I am a young-age creationist because the Bible indicates the universe
> is young. Given what we currently think we understand about the world, the
> majority of the scientific evidence favors an old earth and universe, not
> a young one. I would therefore say that anyone who claims that the earth
> is young for scientific evidence alone is scientifically ignorant. Thus I
> would suggest that the challenge you are trying to meet is unmeetable."
>
>
>
> Of course I disagree with the YEC part, but on the face of it, this sound
> like an honest response to the challenge of scientific evidence.
>
> But the news blip that Louise pointed out has the following statement.
>
> "We need to train Southern Baptist pastors to equip young people to
> engage Darwinism from elementary school on. We also need to train Southern
> Baptists to recognize Darwinist thinking in ways that are subtle that they
> don't even recognize."
>
>
> The tone here is ominous. It reads rather like a fox hunt.
>
> If my memory is correct, in the past, Southern Baptist Seminary
> instructors
> have taken a position of "tolerance" (at least) toward the age of the
> earth and
> how God manifest in through the ages. I vaguely recall it turned a bit
> pro ID
> under Dembski, but not radically so. Yet I cannot reconcile the two
> quotes
> above.
>
> So, what does this mean for the direction of SBTS with Kurt Wise in
> charge?
>
> I reckon it will take a profound overflowing of Grace to get through
> this age without seeing the very fabric of society torn to shreds and
> thrown asunder.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Mon Apr 17 16:14:27 2006