Re: Is there a Plan B? (was: So we're all related!)

Gordon,

You said:

> Genesis 2 gives us a description of the geography of a portion of the
> Middle East. What author would waste his time trying to geographically
> locate some place in an earth that was totally different geographically?
> Here we have the Garden of Eden's location described for us. Four rivers
> are mentioned. The readers didn't need anyone to tell them where the
> Euphrates River was. The location of the other rivers was described
> relative to locations that the readers would presumably have known about.
> People have used these descriptions, including the reports of mineral
> deposits, to identify the rivers whose names we don't recognize. A
> straightforward reading of this passage shows that the surface of the
> earth was not different then from what it is now.

But on what basis do you presume Postdiluvian geography to be identical with
that which obtained before the Flood? Why should you assume that the
_Euphrates river_, as it now is, is the same watercourse as that mentioned
in Genesis 2? If that were true, then tracing it back towards its source
today should ultimately reveal "...(the) river that went out of Eden...and
(its parting)...into four heads...Pison...Gihon...Hiddekel...(and) Euphrates
(Gen.2:10-14)." Are you able to cite a region where these combined features
(together with the others mentioned in Genesis 2) may now be found? I
suspect not; in which case - contrary to your assertion - the physical
geography of the Middle East has manifestly changed from what it was in
Antediluvian times.

You further said:

> In the Red Sea crossing the wind blew for several hours to accomplish
God's purpose. > Computer simulations have been done that show that what is
described in Exodus can > really happen naturally.

I would be interested to know the details of such simulations, for we read
that "...the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their
left (Ex.14:22)." To have this kind of situation happen _naturally_ would
clearly require a sustained and finely-focused movement of air of super gale
force - in the teeth of which the Children of Israel must necessarily
struggle (and fail!) to make headway! Hardly a reasonable understanding of
the situation, surely. It follows that the Hebrew word 'ruach' - here
translated 'wind' - must also convey the alternative meaning, 'Spirit', for
what is described clearly demands supernatural action - as must have
occurred in respect of the reshaping of planet earth's surface during the
Noahic Flood.

Vernon
www.otherbiblecode.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "gordon brown" <gbrown@euclid.Colorado.EDU>
To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Is there a Plan B? (was: So we're all related!)

>
>
>
> > In what way does a straightforward reading of Genesis 2 prove my
scenario of
> > the Flood reshaping the earth's surface to be false? For me (and,
> > presumably, for Ambrose also) the use of the word 'ruach' in this
context
> > suggests God-ordained _supernatural activity_. I particularly have in
mind
> > the language used in respect of the parting of the Red Sea at the time
of
> > the Exodus (Ex.14:21-22). Clearly, the forces involved there cannot have
> > been entirely 'natural'.
>
> Vernon,
>
> Genesis 2 gives us a description of the geography of a portion of the
> Middle East. What author would waste his time trying to geographically
> locate some place in an earth that was totally different geographically?
> Here we have the Garden of Eden's location described for us. Four rivers
> are mentioned. The readers didn't need anyone to tell them where the
> Euphrates River was. The location of the other rivers was described
> relative to locations that the readers would presumably have known about.
> People have used these descriptions, including the reports of mineral
> deposits, to identify the rivers whose names we don't recognize. A
> straightforward reading of this passage shows that the surface of the
> earth was not different then from what it is now.
>
> God can use 'natural' or 'supernatural' means to accomplish his miracles.
> Wind can move water around. There is a shallow lake on the border between
> Austria and Hungary where the wind sometimes pushes the water from one end
> toward the other, and people who have ventured out onto the exposed lake
> bed have drowned when the wind let up. In the Red Sea crossing the wind
> blew for several hours to accomplish God's purpose. Computer simulations
> have been done that show that what is described in Exodus can really
> happen naturally.
>
> Gordon Brown
> Department of Mathematics
> University of Colorado
> Boulder, CO 80309-0395
>
Received on Fri Oct 22 16:13:25 2004