Seeking quotations from famous Evangelical Christian defenders of Darwin

"Terry M. Gray" <grayt@lamar.colostate.edu> writes:
>Ed,
>Why do you insist on continuing to "discuss" these theological issues
>that are really off-topic for this list?

ED: The list brought up a quote by Packer in which he says nothing at all
about what Genesis might say or not say about the age of the earth or
evolution. Packer doesn't know about the age of the earth or evolution,
or what Genesis is really teaching concerning those things? Maybe it's
because he doesn't want to offend anyone in the largely YEC Evangelical
world, and he knows that conservative YEC Evangelicals are still quite
common and buy a lot of his devotional books and pay to have him lecture
at their campuses?

Obviously such a quote from Packer is useless for combating YECism in the
church, because YECs will consider him simply confused, as will OECs and
theistic evolutionists and Biblical scholars of Genesis. I brought up
another quote by Packer for contrast. A quote where Packer is absolutely
sure of something. (I don't know whether to feel sorrier for your head or
your heart for not finding any relevancy in the comparison between those
two quotations.)

Hey, how about some quotations that people on this list can actually use?
Quotations from Evangelicals who were some of Darwin's Defenders? I have
a collection but would love to see more of them. Anyone on the list have
any new ones to share?

As for discussing subjects that are off topic, the list seems to have had
a lot of that, and the topics inside Perspectives on Science and Christian
Faith are quite wide, not to mention the vast variety of topics covered in
the book review section. My own book was reviewed there once.

------------------
>
>I also want to encourage you to shorten up the posts--perhaps it
>works with you--but for most of us an argument doesn't become more
>compelling just because you have a bunch of quotes to back it up.
>Surely you've encountered young-earth creationists who have their
>anti-evolution "quote" book ready at hand. (Have you ever run into
>one Stephen Jones?)

ED: Please tell me the story of Stephen Jones and the ASA list. I would
like to hear it. Yes, I know Stephen, he compared me with the antichrist
at his CED yahoo site. I believe I saved that particular email of his.

---------------
>
>Again, I suggest that you put your longer posts and quote collections
>on a web site and point us to that--we don't need to use up the
>bandwidth or server storage space for voluminous off-topic posts.

ED: I am taking up too much of your servor storage space? My apology.
But just a suggestion, why pick on long posts when there appear to be many
short posts absolutely void of content and not worth the space, like
George's recent one, "But everyone knows the earth is flat," along with a
full copy of someone else's longer message right beneath it. I guess you
just can't have enough storage space for short right on topic-posts like
that, can you? Someone could begin weeding out the least informative
posts and saving those that contain a decent information to noise ratio
with content and references, instead of saving posts that contain mere one
shot opinions? And once I leave, your servor space will still be getting
filled up.

--------------
>
>Faith-science is the the topic!

ED: I'm discussing the faith part. I will get to the science part too,
but I haven't seen anyone else discussing it much so far on the list since
I've been here. I'd like a major I.D.ist to show up on the list, that
would be nice and generate more scientific buzz.
     
--------------
>
>To see Packer's remarks as making Genesis a wax-nose is ridiculous if
>you know Packer and his writings at all.

ED: His remark as cited on the list, allows an Evangelical to make of
Genesis what they will, be they YECs, OECs, or TEs.

---------------

>You seem to be aware of
>multiple evangelical positions on how to interpret Genesis 1. These
>are all within an "inerrantist" position and there is vigorous debate
>given evangelical assumptions.

ED: Yes, I know there are "inerrantist" theistic evolutionary Christians,
like Clark Pinnock. I know of a whole host of issues that "inerrantists"
can't get together on.

--------------------

>Don't know if you're one of them here,
>but many opponents of creationism lump all evangelicals together in
>the 6-24 hr day camp. That just ain't the facts.

ED: I don't lump. I'd sooner point out a spectrum of opinions, a wide
enough spectrum to make sure people understand that the Bible is not
speaking plainly about science at all. As Paul Seely and Howard Van Till
agree, concordism is dead.

---------------------
>
>We'd have to look at the Packer quotes in detail to see their context
>and purpose. The one I provided was in the context of a very brief
>exposition of the Apostles' Creed. No reason to say more than he did.

ED: My fault, I should have directed the person who asked for the Packer
quote to some far better ones by respected Evangelicals of the past the
present. My fault, I didn't mean to show how assinine (and cold hearted)
Packer (and modern Evangelicalism) can sound. mea culpa.

----------------------

>TG
>--
>_________________
>Terry M. Gray, Ph.D., Computer Support Scientist
>Chemistry Department, Colorado State University
>Fort Collins, Colorado 80523
>grayt@lamar.colostate.edu http://www.chm.colostate.edu/~grayt/
>phone: 970-491-7003 fax: 970-491-1801
Received on Thu Oct 14 18:28:56 2004