Re: Shapes of a Wedge

Burgy writes:

> I have not (yet) taken a position on #2, Gay Marriage, although I think
> the arguments for permitting it are strong ones -- yes, "conservative"
> strong ones. There is at least one argument against it which still gives
> me pause; it is a variation of the so-called "slippery slope" logic.
> Briefly stated, if I can approve Gay Marriage, on what grounds can I
> still oppose polygamy? I have not (yet) worked through this.
>

 One of the ironies of the debate over the consecration of Gene Robinson as
a bishop in the Episcopal Church, a man in a in a committed, faithful
relationship with another man (for 17 years), has to do with the
fulminations against this decision coming from bishops of African provinces
in the Anglican Communion, and their very strong condemnations of
homosexuality and homosexual practice. Some of those same bishops in the
1988 Lambeth Conference (when all of the bishops in the Anglican Communion
meet for their decennial conference) asked the other bishops to cut them
some slack for the issue of monogamy. For many converts to Christianity in
their provinces had practiced polygamy, and did not wish to give up all but
one of their wives. It reminds one again of the role that culture plays in
understanding and defining what marriage is. Christian views on monogamy
and adultery run up against African priests and laity who practice polygamy;
and, sad to say, some keep concubines. The latter situation has to do with
male African views about what is acceptable and even admirable behavior
among them. A man's sexual attractiveness and virility masy be measured by
the number of women he keeps; this appears to extend even to some priests
and bishops.

The bishops of the Episcopal Church in the USA have not threatened to break
off communion with any province whose episcopal leadership tolerates
polygamy and concubinage.

This is all beside the point that men in African cultures maintain close
bonds with other men, often including sexual relations. But these
relationships are not conceived in terms of western sexual identities. I
recall the story of a native of Great Britain living in a homoerotic
relationship in an African country with a man who was a native of that
country. Their relationship was accepted in the man's family and considered
acceptable. However, when the couple moved to England and the African found
himself labeled with our western language as a homosexual, he became quite
indignant. He simply did not conceive of himself in such terms.

This phenomenon is far more complex than we westerners realize, and appeals
to common interpretations of certain biblical passages in the abesence of
any experience with same sex relationships among friends or acquaintances do
nothing to lead Christians to give serious thought to the whole matter.
Claiming that the Bible condemns homosexuality and that settles the issue is
in my view a cop-out.

Bob Schneider

----- Original Message -----
From: "John W Burgeson" <jwburgeson@juno.com>
To: <mtharp@exammaster.com>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Shapes of a Wedge

> >>How can any Christian advocate gay marriage when the Bible (both old
> and new testament) so clearly speaks out against it? I understand that
> you are not personally advocating that position, but you don't seem to
> see such a position as contradictory to the Word of God. Please explain.
> >>
>
> Lots of material on my website, page 2, section 10, on all sides of the
> issue. Some people here get bent out of shape when I mention this stuff,
> so I will not go over already plowed ground.
>
> The issue (#1) of whether ALL same-gender intimacy is sin is one issue.
> The issue (#2) of Gay marriage is another issue. I have a position
> statement on the first issue on my website, written after a several years
> study in 2001; it is still my position.
>
> I have not (yet) taken a position on #2, Gay Marriage, although I think
> the arguments for permitting it are strong ones -- yes, "conservative"
> strong ones. There is at least one argument against it which still gives
> me pause; it is a variation of the so-called "slippery slope" logic.
> Briefly stated, if I can approve Gay Marriage, on what grounds can I
> still oppose polygamy? I have not (yet) worked through this.
>
> In any event, the Bible does not speak at all to either issue, except by
> strained interpretations. The material on my site will explain why I do
> not see scripture as speaking "clearly" on either issue. There are quite
> a number of Christian scholars, clerics and lay people who argue this
> point quite better than I can. Is Paul, in Romans 1, speaking of ALL
> same-gender intimacy, or only of the kind he clearly knew about, acts
> which took place in a pagan temple between men and children?
>
> One of the neatest example of this is a debate between Tony Compolo and
> his wife, who hold differing views on issue #1. A link to this debate is
> on my website.
>
> Scholars Wink and Mauser have written position papers on issue #1, each
> on a different side. Worth reading them both; links on my site.
>
> The issues are not easy. The temptation to just "believe what one has
> always believed" is great. I started there; I know.
>
> Best
>
> Burgy
>
> Today's quip: They told me I was gullible -- and I believed them.
>
> www.burgy.50megs.com
>
>
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Received on Wed Jun 9 09:54:49 2004