RE: Shapes of a Wedge

Hi Burgy,

To interject, the Bible does speak to it, in a manner of speaking. First it
says "go forth and multiply". Now assuming one does this, it does not mean
that one must be married nor heterosexual. It does mean that one must have
sex with a partner of the opposite sex in order to fulfill this command.
Which only leaves the option of bisexuality for those leaning towards same
sex. This however would then mean that one cannot be in a monogamous
relationship, of the type that you state is intimate and acceptable. Which
leaves you only the option of having a relationship with someone of the
opposite sex, for the purpose of having a child, then become gay and enter
into a second relationship. Or vice versa. In either case it would then be a
predetermined NON-COMMITMENT to a relationship (marriage), which is not a
relationship of intimacy at all. Which again brings it back to the point
that one cannot obey God and be homosexual or bisexual. Homosexual(never
having sex with the other sex) leaves one unable to fulfill the command,
Bisexual(having had at least one experience with someone of the opposite
sex, even if only for reproduction) leaves one unable to even fulfill your
requirement of intimate relationship let alone God's. And while divorces do
occur, I doubt anyone would subscribe to the idea of it being intended
solely for reproduction. Some would say, "people in the OT used surrogates".
Yes, but who would raise them. The two mothers, or the two fathers? The
Bible says honor your father and mother, not father and father, nor mother
and mother.

From the beginning

Don Perrett

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of John W Burgeson
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 16:43
To: mtharp@exammaster.com
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: Shapes of a Wedge

>>How can any Christian advocate gay marriage when the Bible (both old
and new testament) so clearly speaks out against it? I understand that
you are not personally advocating that position, but you don't seem to
see such a position as contradictory to the Word of God. Please explain.
>>

Lots of material on my website, page 2, section 10, on all sides of the
issue. Some people here get bent out of shape when I mention this stuff,
so I will not go over already plowed ground.

The issue (#1) of whether ALL same-gender intimacy is sin is one issue.
The issue (#2) of Gay marriage is another issue. I have a position
statement on the first issue on my website, written after a several years
study in 2001; it is still my position.

I have not (yet) taken a position on #2, Gay Marriage, although I think
the arguments for permitting it are strong ones -- yes, "conservative"
strong ones. There is at least one argument against it which still gives
me pause; it is a variation of the so-called "slippery slope" logic.
Briefly stated, if I can approve Gay Marriage, on what grounds can I
still oppose polygamy? I have not (yet) worked through this.

In any event, the Bible does not speak at all to either issue, except by
strained interpretations. The material on my site will explain why I do
not see scripture as speaking "clearly" on either issue. There are quite
a number of Christian scholars, clerics and lay people who argue this
point quite better than I can. Is Paul, in Romans 1, speaking of ALL
same-gender intimacy, or only of the kind he clearly knew about, acts
which took place in a pagan temple between men and children?

One of the neatest example of this is a debate between Tony Compolo and
his wife, who hold differing views on issue #1. A link to this debate is
on my website.

Scholars Wink and Mauser have written position papers on issue #1, each
on a different side. Worth reading them both; links on my site.

The issues are not easy. The temptation to just "believe what one has
always believed" is great. I started there; I know.

Best

Burgy

Today's quip: They told me I was gullible -- and I believed them.

                                                 www.burgy.50megs.com

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Received on Wed, 9 Jun 2004 06:45:36 -0400