Re: Intelligent design controversy in Canada

From: Robert Schneider (rjschn39@bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu Nov 06 2003 - 19:30:56 EST

  • Next message: Howard J. Van Till: "Re: So what?!"

    Oh, Dear! I believe Johnson actually said "balony detector." But he was
    being euphemistic, and I prefer the "four-letter" word.

    Bob

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Robert Schneider" <rjschn39@bellsouth.net>
    To: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>; "Denyse O'Leary"
    <oleary@sympatico.ca>; <ASA@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:17 PM
    Subject: Re: Intelligent design controversy in Canada

    > I agree with Michael. The statement that "Darwin didn't believe anything
    > more or less than Lucretius did. He did not find a way to eliminate a
    First
    > Cause" is a false characterization of Darwin to anyone who has taken the
    > time to study his writings. All of those Anglican naturalist-parsons who
    > corresponded with Darwin over the latter half of the 19th century
    certainly
    > knew better. Yes, Darwin was a great stylist--"The Voyage of the Beagle"
    is
    > one of the great works of Victorian literature. Are we to take it,
    Denyse,
    > that you think he used his powers of prose to conceal his true views?
    >
    > Phillip Johnson urges students to turn on their crap detectors when
    studying
    > evolution. I offer the same advice to those who examine ID arguments,
    both
    > those in favor of this so-called theory, and those the ID people proffer
    > against evolution.
    >
    > Bob Schneider
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
    > To: "Denyse O'Leary" <oleary@sympatico.ca>; <ASA@calvin.edu>
    > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 2:33 PM
    > Subject: Re: Intelligent design controversy in Canada
    >
    >
    > > Are you actually talking about Charles Darwin 1809-1882 or are you
    talking
    > > about another person of the same name?
    > > I suggest you make a good study of Darwin and not simply state what you
    > > think he said and meant, because you have got it wrong. It takes a long
    > time
    > > to get into his mindset and that of his contemporaries and we need to be
    > > careful that we have both our facts right and our interpretation
    > reasonable.
    > > You have done neither.
    > >
    > > Slick writings by hacks will not further understanding of these
    important
    > > issues
    > >
    > > Michael
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Denyse O'Leary" <oleary@sympatico.ca>
    > > To: <ASA@calvin.edu>
    > > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 5:23 PM
    > > Subject: Re: Intelligent design controversy in Canada
    > >
    > >
    > > > Howard J. Van Till wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >> From: "Denyse O'Leary" <oleary@sympatico.ca> >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > >> The Darwinism taught in the school system and university is
    > > > >> reductionist, atheistic, and chance-oriented. And it reflects not
    > > > >> only Darwin's view but that of key evolutionists today.
    > > >
    > > > > In Darwin's own words:
    > > > >
    > > > > "There is grandeur in this view of life; with its several powers
    > > > having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or
    into
    > > > one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the
    > > > fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most
    > > > wonderful and most beautiful have been, and are being, evolved."
    > > > >
    > > > > Is this the sentiment you want to stamp out? Or, do you wish to
    > > > contest maximal naturalism?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Darwin didn't believe anything more or less than Lucretius did. He did
    > > > not find a way to eliminate a First Cause. And he was a great prose
    > > > stylist, as witness the passage above.
    > > >
    > > > So? We lesser hacks know how that is done. And I am not the least
    fooled
    > > > about what it means.
    > > >
    > > > It's all okay with me, understand, but it is a doctrine, and should
    not
    > > > be taught exclusively in the school system, as if by right. I believe
    > > > that the American courts were wrong in their judgement in this matter.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > And if it's the latter, why demonize the name of Darwin to make
    your
    > > > > point? How would you like your name demonized to make a point
    foreign
    > > > > to your own agenda?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Demonize? I should think Darwin would be proud to have gotten his
    theory
    > > > taught for so long, so exclusively, in so many venues, far beyond its
    > > > actual evidence base.
    > > >
    > > > Stephen Hawking has yet to do anything like as well with his no
    > > > boundaries hypothesis. Tegmark's four levels of multiverses are still
    > > > viewed as speculation. Only Darwin has the courts behind him. Now if
    > > > only he had the evidence.
    > > >
    > > > Denyse
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >



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