From: Jim Armstrong (jarmstro@qwest.net)
Date: Sat Nov 01 2003 - 21:19:14 EST
I have just this one observation, relating to your statement, "I agree
that much of this study would be utterly meaningless to a non-Christian,
but then, so is the entirety of Bible before he comes to faith." Oddly
enough, I think I have a higher view on this matter. The Bible remains
one the great wisdom books even to non-Christians. Moreover I think it
is fair to say that there are more than a couple of folks that have
embraced the message of salvation after it spoke to them from a startng
place as simply one of several of the world's books of wisdom.
JimA
richard@biblewheel.com wrote:
>Jim, thank you for your intuitions. I understand and appreciate your
>statement that "it's hard for me to see a real God-purpose for such
>properties." I think this is probably a product of the current intellectual
>fashion which pretty much rejects Typology, Analogy, and even Prophecy in
>biblical exegesis, leaving only naturalistic historical/grammatical and
>textual critical methods as legitimate. The text is rarely, if ever, thought
>of as the result of divine design (even if mediated through apparently
>natural means). This is an historical anomaly. In times past - spanning the
>majority of Christian history - the study of Numbers in Scripture was a
>standard and fully respected part of biblical exegesis. Now this doesn't
>prove that numerical symbolism is a valid hermeneutic, I mention it only to
>show that the inability to see the "real God-purpose for such properties" is
>a modern anomaly. The typical educated Christian has for most of Church
>history both recognized and appreciated Numerical Symbols in Scripture. Here
>is a quote from the online Catholic Encyclopedia on the question of "The Use
>of Number in Scripture" (which, btw, is an excellent resource):
>
>===Quote====
>No attentive reader of the Old Testament can fail to notice that a certain
>sacredness seems to attach to particular numbers, for example, seven, forty,
>twelve, etc. It is not merely the frequent recurrence of these numbers, but
>their ritual or ceremonial use which is so significant. Take, for example,
>the swearing of Abraham (Gen., xxi, 28 sqq.) after setting apart (for
>sacrifice) seven ewe lambs, especially when we remember the etymological
>connexion of the word nishba, to take an oath, with sheba seven. Traces of
>the same mystical employment of numbers lie much upon the surface of the New
>Testament also, particularly in the Apocalypse. ... [T]here can be no doubt
>that influenced mainly by Biblical precepts, but also in part by the
>prevalence of this philosophy of numbers all around them, the Fathers down
>to the time of Bede and even later gave much attention to the sacredness and
>mystical significance not only of certain numerals in themselves but also of
>the numerical totals given by the constituent letters with which words were
>written.
>===End Quote====
>
>Here's the link to the article: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11151a.htm
>
>As an aside, the relation between the Number Seven (Sheba) and the idea of
>the Oath mentioned above is an important part of my explanation of God's
>imprint of the Number Seven on Scripture, spanning the Seven Days of
>Creation, the Seven Seals of the Apocalypse, and even the sevenfold
>symmetric perfection of the large-scale structure of Scripture in the form
>of the Canon Wheel. Simply stated, God marked the Bible with the Number
>Seven (Sheba) because it is His Oath (Shaba) - His Word, His Promise! How
>can a soul fail to see a glorious "God-purpose" in His use of this numerical
>symbol that saturates everything from the narrative to the geometric
>structure of His Holy Word? Here's the link to my article on the meaning of
>the Number Seven in Scripture: http://www.BibleWheel.com/Topics/seven.asp
>
>I also understand and appreciate your comment that "it strikes me that this
>would be pretty meaningless - even verging on occult to a non-Christian. To
>a Christian, most would not need or particularly benefit from these
>observations." I agree that much of this study would be utterly meaningless
>to a non-Christian, but then, so is the entirety of Bible before he comes to
>faith. This study is not intended as a replacement for the plain declaration
>of the Gospel! It is also true that many Christians would not benefit
>directly from this study, any more than they would benefit from an in-depth
>study of Greek or Hebrew if they have no aptitude for languages. The Bible
>is given by God to reveal His infinite Wisdom to Mankind - He is the Master
>Artist, Poet, Linguist, Storyteller, and Mathematician. He is everything to
>me, and He has revealed Himself in His infinite Word. Some people write
>whole books on Biblical Economics, God's instruction on how to handle your
>money. I've never read one, and probably never will. I don't think I would
>"particularly benefit" from such a study. God has given His Word to satisfy
>every soul in all their multifaceted variations. That is part of the great
>glory of His Word.
>
>But then, I must disagree with the idea that my studies will not benefit
>absolutely everyone on the planet who wants to know and serve the Lord. I
>would agree that if my study were confined to mere numerical relations, no
>matter how significant, they would never attain a general audience since a
>large portion of the population will never really understand or appreciate
>the Beauty of Numbers, let alone God's divine use of them. But this
>intellectual limitation of the masses does not exist for the Bible Wheel.
>Any child can appreciate the simple Circle as the ideal symbol of things
>divine, eternal, and perfect. When enlighted by God's Spirit, the impact is
>overwhelming. The full integrity and divine unity of all Scripture is now
>*visually* evident. It glorifies God and His Word beyond measure and reveals
>the Bible as a great work of divine Art. The radial and bilateral symmetry
>displayed in the Canon Wheel forms a stunning image of the tri-radiant
>cruciform halo used since the 6th century to indicate Deity in Christian
>iconography. This means that the Cross of Christ - the central message of
>all Scripture - is also the basis of its geometric design! The implications
>are staggering. The Wheel reveals more than just the supernatural unity of
>the Holy Bible; it reveals the form of the unity itself as a work of Divine
>Art, an icon of the very Faith taught within its pages!
>
>Well, this is a small part of the "God-purpose for these properties" as you
>put it. Limitations of space and time prohibit even pointing out all the
>highlights. My cup runneth over! I have about a thousand pages documenting
>this structure on my site.
>
>Thanks for your kind, honest, and respectful answer to my post Jim. I hope
>others will join in the discussion.
>
>Richard
>Discover the sevenfold symmetric perfection of the Holy Bible at
>http://www.BibleWheel.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Armstrong" <jarmstro@qwest.net>
>Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:02 AM
>Subject: Re: The Body of Jesus
>
>
>
>
>>But you gotta admit at least that there is some benevolent flexibility
>>in choosing what particular words are going to be associated, evaluated
>>and compared. In one case in your example, there is a phrase; in the
>>other a sentence. What about "body of Jesus" vs "whom they pierced"? No
>>match. Wouldn't that be more "perfect" yet. For my part I view these
>>observations as intriguing, but it's hard for me to see a real
>>God-purpose for such properties. It seems somehow related to the early
>>efforts to understand the workings of the universe in terms of the
>>platonic solids and musical intervals. I respect that you do see purpose
>>in your observations. However, it strikes me that this would be pretty
>>meaningless - even verging on occult to a non-Christian. To a Christian,
>>most would not need or particularly benefit from these observations.
>>But it's just my opinion. You clearly find great satisfaction and
>>importance in them. I would not take that away from you. You have
>>clearly invested a great deal of time and effort in a study with a
>>righteous intent.
>>Regards - JimA
>>
>>
>>richard@biblewheel.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>The study of the the numerical structure of Scripture is rejected by some
>>>because it appears to be based on a random association between numbers
>>>
>>>
>and
>
>
>>>words. The problem is that any arbitrary assignation of numbers to
>>>
>>>
>letters
>
>
>>>will always divide the vocabulary into numerical classes which can be
>>>scanned for "interesting" hits. The critic notes immediately that in the
>>>process of finding ten interesting coincidences, ten thousand were passed
>>>over. How could order or meaning be found in something as arbitrary as
>>>
>>>
>this?
>
>
>>>There are many satisfying answers to this question that involve a fair
>>>amount of discussion. But there can be no discussion if the topic is
>>>rejected out of hand. Therefore, people need a reason to consider the
>>>possibility that such a study could be fruitful. That is the purpse of
>>>
>>>
>this
>
>
>>>post.
>>>
>>>In John 19, we read:
>>>
>>>And again another scripture saith, THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY
>>>
>>>
>PIERCED.
>
>
>>>And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but
>>>
>>>
>secretly
>
>
>>>for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of
>>>Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took THE BODY OF
>>>JESUS.
>>>
>>>The numerical value of the exact words written are:
>>>
>>>The Body of Jesus (TO SOMA TOU IHSOU) = 2869
>>>
>>>This coincides exactly with the value of the Hebrew prophecy (Zech.
>>>
>>>
>12.10b)
>
>
>>>cited IN CONTEXT of its fulfillment:
>>>
>>>and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn
>>>
>>>
>for
>
>
>>>him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for
>>>
>>>
>him,
>
>
>>>as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
>>>
>>>The sum of these words in Hebrew is exactly 2869 = THE BODY OF JESUS.
>>>
>>>This is discussed in my article:
>>>http://www.BibleWheel.com/InnerWheels/John/John19.asp
>>>
>>>Let me reiterate, the sum of the Greek letters that spell THE BODY OF
>>>
>>>
>JESUS
>
>
>>>coincides *exactly* with the sum of the Hebrew words of the prophecy that
>>>says "THEY SHALL LOOK ON ME WHOM THEY PIERCED ..." Perhaps it will help
>>>
>>>
>to
>
>
>>>state it as an equation mediated by the common value:
>>>
>>>THE BODY OF JESUS = 2869 = THEY SHALL LOOK UPON ME WHOM THEY PIERCED ....
>>>
>>>We have here a translingual (Hebrew to Greek), alphanumerically-coded
>>>reiteration of a prophecy cited in context of its fulfullment!
>>>
>>>Note the magnitude of the mediating number. It contains four digits. What
>>>are the chances of this?
>>>
>>>Is it appropriate to dismiss this as yet another "mere coincidence"?
>>>
>>>Richard
>>>Discover the sevenfold symmetric perfection of the Holy Bible at
>>>http://www.BibleWheel.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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