From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. (dfsiemensjr@juno.com)
Date: Thu Jun 26 2003 - 15:02:01 EDT
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:57:09 +0000 "Josh Bembenek" <jbembe@hotmail.com>
writes:
>
> I agree that the presentation of Abraham discovering God is giving
> credit
> where credit is not due. However, it seems that your description of
> our
> coming to faith is solely placed in God's hands (as much scripture
> supports.) It comes across almost like a natural law: God chooses
> and we
> believe, much like magnets are drawn to one another naturally. I
> would love
> to hear how you see free will participating in this process, and how
> we are
> given enough freedom to remain responsible for our actions and
> commitment or
> lack thereof to Christ, yet it is God who predestines and calls… (a
> magnet
> has no choice to pull toward another magnet, according to natural
> law and
> -besides it not being a moral agent- would not be held accountable
> for
> acting according to magnetic forces.) I had a conversation about
> this with
> some friends recently and would love to get some feedback, perhaps
> some
> citations. Not to elevate the credit humans have, but to develop an
>
> accurate and complete picture...
>
> Josh
>
The determinism/free will stuff is notoriously difficult. There is no
proof, except that determinism works well in the area of the hard
sciences and there is a universal assumption, even by those who try to
deny it, that human beings have a choice which is not strictly
determined. True indeterminism is also denied to human beings, for then
things just happen, accidents in the strictest sense, eliminating all
possibility of responsibility in all areas affected. Things are getting
stickier in the sciences with the development of complexity
theory--determinsm with unpredictability.
Causation is normally viewed as sequential. If A causes B and B, C, then
A causes C. However, flipping the switch caused the light to go on, and
the darkness caused Tom to flip the switch, does not allow for the
darkness caused the light to go on. The latter would hold in a
light-sensitive switch were involved, but not a person. But this is not
something demonstrable, just something that underlies all attempts to
understand the universe and our place in it.
I think part of the problem in dealing with choice is a tacit assumption
that free choice must the totally uncontrolled. But it should be obvious
that every choice is restricted by the physical. No one can choose to fly
by flapping his arms. Other restrictions are more subtle. If King David
had internalized the Ten Commandments, he would not have brought
Bathsheba into his bedroom. The work of the Spirit is not foolproof, but
restricts many options.
How it all can be fitted together is one of the more difficult problems
of philosophy. Indeed, I suspect there is more nonsense published in the
area that perhaps in any other. Our underlying intuitions seem to be much
better than our attempts at codifying them. But this simply fits in with
human abilities to twist anything to fit what they most deeply want. It's
a real pain to be human.
Dave
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