Re: David Livingstone's take on geology and creation

From: jdac (jdac@alphalink.com.au)
Date: Thu Jan 30 2003 - 01:46:22 EST

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    I think tertiary syphilis is the result of parental misbehaviour, not
    the sufferer's.

    Do you think the autopsy report is a myth?

    Jon

    Michael Roberts wrote:

    > Yeah but it makes a good story doesn't it! Not only has syphilis been
    > suggested but also repressed homosexuality. I haven't checked them
    > out, but having considered the nonsense about Darwin's and Buckland's
    > illnesses I remain totally sceptical Regards michael
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: jdac
    > To: Glenn Morton
    > Cc: Michael Roberts ; ASA list
    > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:40 PM
    > Subject: Re: David Livingstone's take on geology and
    > creation
    > One biography of Miller I read said that an autospy showed
    > that he suffered from brain lesions the result of tertiary
    > syphylis or a tumour. It was this that almost certainly
    > led to his depression, nightmares and sucide. There is no
    > evidence what so ever that his work on the science faith
    > intrerface led to his sucide.
    >
    > Jon
    >
    > Glenn Morton wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Michael wrote:
    > > >-----Original Message-----
    > > >From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
    > > [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of Michael
    > > Roberts
    > > >Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:29
    > > >In 1857virtually all scots presbytarians and nearly all
    > > anglicans accepted vast ages of geology. At that time
    > > there was a lower proportion of>YEC than there are today.
    > > (Remember old fashioned evangelicals and fundamentalists
    > > believe in an old earth. None of this new-fangled YEC for
    > > them) !857 was>also the year when Hugh Miller ppublished
    > > Teh testimony of the Rocks - a classic on geology and
    > > genesis.Two comments on Miller's book. I am delighted that
    > > you do acknowledge here (at least implicitly) that there
    > > were YECs. Miller spends an entire chapter on YEC
    > > arguments and he wouldn't have done that if they were
    > > totally insignificant. Secondly, I have both the American
    > > version and the British 1857 version of this work. In the
    > > American version, there is an extended preface by the
    > > editors which may shed some light upon the expectations
    > > with which Miller's book was greeted. Below is from p.
    > > 165 of Foundation, Fall and Flood, 1998. It is my view of
    > > what was bugging Miller. Before the historians slap me (as
    > > they do everytime I touch on history) I will simply say
    > > this is my view, and there is some reading between the
    > > lines.:
    > >
    > > *****begin********
    > >
    > > In the autumn of 1855, an American publisher received an
    > > offer for the publication of a new book by Hugh
    > > Miller.Miller was a famous British geologist who was also
    > > a devout Christian. He had written a very popular book on
    > > the Old Red Sandstone. Miller believed the Bible. He was
    > > also concerned with the distortions concerning geology,
    > > which were being made by his fellow Christians. This new
    > > book would address the tension between geology and the
    > > Bible.The publishers were very interested and closed the
    > > deal at once.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
    > > "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
    > >
    > > Over the next year, advance pages were written and
    > > dispatched to the American publisher.As the editor perused
    > > the papers they were convinced that this book was a
    > > monumental work. They wrote, "It became more and more
    > > evident that the work was destined not only to extend his
    > > fame, but to establish for him new and special claims to
    > > the admiration and gratitude of mankind." The editor felt
    > > that Miller had been successful in dealing with the
    > > science/religion issue.
    > >
    > > As Miller struggled with the issues and finished his work,
    > > he became more and more depressed.No one knows what was
    > > actually going through his mind during the final stages of
    > > manuscript preparation but the issues of how to explain
    > > the Divine record were clearly on his mind.As a geologist,
    > > Miller knew that he had not solved the issue of the
    > > flood.All he had done was explain why the Flood could not
    > > be global.He had not offered a detailed and successful
    > > scenario for the Flood.He had suggested that the Caspian
    > > basin was the locale for Noah's flood. His scenario did
    > > not allow one to point to a group of rocks and say,
    > > "There, those are the rocks deposited by the Flood." All
    > > he did was note that the Caspian used to be bigger than it
    > > is now, but that does not prove that the Caspian was
    > > catastrophically filled. It simply proves that the water
    > > is evaporating more rapidly today than the rivers can
    > > replenish it. He admitted that he was on weak ground and
    > > called his view a 'conjecture'.1 He also admitted that the
    > > Flood might have been miraculous rather than natural.2
    > > This was almost equivalent to admitting that he had not
    > > solved the problem.
    > >
    > > Miller's despair grew. On the night of December 23, 1856,
    > > after finishing the proof reading of his manuscript,
    > > Miller called his doctor to dinner.There he told the
    > > doctor that he had been up at night for several weeks
    > > working on the book.The doctor told him that he had been
    > > overworking, that he should stop work and take a rest.
    > > Miller agreed that that would be good.
    > >
    > > After their dinner, Hugh Miller took his bath, and retired
    > > to his bedroom. An hour or so later, the maid entered the
    > > room and found a look of horror on his face.She fled the
    > > room rapidly. Later that night, Hugh Miller, the famous
    > > author, wrote a note to his wife, pulled out his pistol
    > > and shot himself to death.
    > > Christians who do not study geology are unaware of the
    > > difficulties this subject presents to the believer, but
    > > Hugh Miller knew! While not coming to the depths of
    > > despair Miller faced, I have found it very difficult to
    > > deal with the misunderstandings of geology I hear from the
    > > pulpit.Miller knew, as I know, that what my fellow
    > > Christians are teaching about science is not correct.It
    > > challenges one's faith when he realizes that most of one's
    > > fellow believers are quite willing to make definitive
    > > statements about geology and other areas of science when
    > > they have never studied the subjects.It is painful to know
    > > that Christian apologists regularly ignore observational
    > > data.Miller blew his brains
    > > out.*******end***********Having now gone through 3 winters
    > > in Scotland where Miller committed suicide, I can attest
    > > that the constant darkness (very short days) can get one
    > > down. That had to have an impact on his point of view.
    > > Dec. 23rd is about as dark as it gets--a mere 6 hours of
    > > low to the horizon sun. But the thing that struck me was
    > > that people were expecting him to have solved the flood
    > > problem, and it was obvious that he knew he hadn't.glenn
    > >
    > > see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
    > > for lots of creation/evolution information
    > > anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
    > > personal stories of struggle
    >



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