Burgy -
Below you have emphasized the ethical aspects of liberalism. Here
are excerpts of three characteristics of "liberalism" in theology from the
Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology article on it by Donald E.
Miller, followed by my comments.
1. "Liberalism is receptive to contemporary science, the arts and
humanities. ... Christianity is not viewed as the only expression of man's
search for God or of God's revelation to man."
2. "Liberals have been sympathetic to applying the canons of
historiography to their interpretations of sacred scriptures. ... The Bible
is seen by liberals as a human document whose primary validity lies in the
fact that it records the experience of persons who are open to God's
presence."
3. "Liberals stress the ethical implications of Christianity.
Christianity is not a dogma to be believed, it is a way of life, a moral
vision to be shared.... . Liberals have often been optimistic about the
possibilities for change and have not infrequently seen evil as a product of
ignorance rather than the result of man's intrinsically evil nature."
1. I think that Christian theology should be "receptive to
contemporary science, the arts and humanities," & especially that it must
take the insights of science seriously. But these things do not provide our
fundamental understanding of God and God's relationship with the world. They
must have a ministerial, rather than a magisterial, role in theology.
In particular, the idea that there are other sources of revelation,
including the claims of other religions, has to be treated with a great deal
of caution. If there are other sources of revelation on the same level as
Christ then the Christian understanding of the person and work of Christ have
to be abandoned. Jn.14:6 has to be modified to something like "I am one way
to the Father and you may find me attractive, but if not there are other
ways."
2. I agree that the Bible is a human document and that
historical-critical methods should be used in studying it. But it is a
unique human document because it is the record of witnesses to God's unique
revelation in Christ. Historical-critical methods, which are largely
analytical, have to be complemented by a synthetic approach like canonical
criticism which puts the pieces back together and sees the canon as a
whole.
If we say that the Bible is a record of human experiences of God's
presence, we have to add that those experiences were unique because God's
presence for them was unique - which is what has been meant traditionally by
language about revelation, inspiration, &c. If this is not the case then we
are open to anybody's claims of experience - not only popular things like
feminist theology, black theology &c but, as I have noted before, the
theology of the "German Christians" which was based precisely on such
experiential claims.
Lest I be misunderstood - there can be legitimate feminist, black &c
theologies if these are understood as reflection upon God's revelation to
Israel & in Christ from feminist, black &c viewpoints. But that is not the
same as thinking that being feminine, black, &c give a person some unique
insight into God.
3. Here I have serious disagreement. Christianity certainly has
strong ethical implications but it is first of all faith - in the full sense
of knowledge, assent, & trust - in the God revealed in the history of Israel
& preeminently in Christ. Jesus said - in accord with the Jewish tradition -
that the command to love God comes first & love of neighbor second. The idea
that ethics can be given precedence is connected with the optimistic
assessment of the human condition that Miller mentions - an assessment that I
think is at variance both with scripture and our experience of the world.
In summary: There are a number of ways in which I agree with
theological liberalism, but when invited to become a card carrying liberal, I
have to decline.
Shalom,
George
George L. Murphy
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
"The Science-Theology Interface"
John W Burgeson wrote:
> I heard Rush Limbaugh the other day tell his audience what a "liberal"
> was.
>
> I did not recognize myself, or anyone I know, in his rantings.
>
> What do YOU think a liberal thinks? Narrow it down -- a liberal
> Christian.
>
> I'll give you a start. Micah 6:8 is pretty important. Madison's "Memorial
> and Remonstrance" is pretty important. The Bill of Rights, particularly
> Amendment #1.
>
> In no particular order:
>
> Free speech
> Religion free from government interference, either positive or negative.
> Against any law that inserts a grim faced man in a blue suit with a large
> gun into a doctor's office. In other words, pro-choice -- but NOT
> pro-abortion.
> Anti-racist in a wide meaning of that term. See all humanity as equal
> before God.
> People of color have equal standing
> Women have equal standing
> People with different sexual preferences have equal standing
> See diversity as a "good thing."
> Honor those of a different religious persuasion.
> Honor those with no religious persuasion.
> See Christianity as primarily a confessional, not a prescriptive
> religion.
> Subscribe, to a more or less extent, to Leonardo Boff's observation:
>
> One of Boff's most powerful books is Way of the Cross -- Way of Justice
> (Orbis, 1980) Written in blank verse, it is a series of meditations on
> the stations of the cross, a traditional exercise of individualistic
> Catholic piety that Boff transforms into a communal exercise as well. He
> effects this transformation by offering meditations on each of the
> "stations" of Jesus' original journey along the Via Dolorosa, all of
> which are followed by second meditations reflecting on the meaning of the
> station for Jesus followers in today's world. The practice exemplifies
> Boff's conviction that theology must have "two eyes," one looking to the
> past "where salvation broke in" and the other looking toward the present
> "where salvation becomes a reality here and now." The "way of the cross"
> focuses on the historical Jesus, but the "way of justice" focuses "on the
> Christ of faith who continues his passion today in his brothers and
> sisters who are being condemned, tortured and killed for the cause of
> justice" (p. viii) The parallels between what Jesus suffered then and
> what his followers suffer today are acute and heartrending. The book has
> intense power, and will surely become one of the spiritual classics of
> our time. Boff writes:
>
> "The eternal destiny of human beings will be measured by how much or how
> little solidarity we have displayed with the hungry, the thirsty, the
> naked and the oppressed. In the end, we will be judged in terms of love."
>
> This liberal has that motto taped to his PC monitor.
>
> Finally, the following good news came to me today from a fellow liberal:
>
> > Dallas City Council Approves Anti-Discrimination Ordinance
> > The Associated Press, May 8, 2002
> > DALLAS - The Dallas City Council on Wednesday adopted an ordinance
> > that prohibits discrimination against gays and lesbians in employment,
> > housing and in public places such as hotels and restaurants.
> > The council voted 13-2 for the measure, which was pledged on the
> > campaign trail by new Mayor Laura Miller. Violation of the ordinance
> > will result in fines up to $500.
> > "Let us walk out of the shadow of intolerance and bigotry and into the
> > sunshine of human rights," Councilman John Loza said.
> > The two councilmen who opposed the ordinance, Alan Walne and Mitchell
> > Rasansky, said it would be too expensive for the city to enforce in an
> > already tight budget year. Resansky also said the measure could be too
> > expensive for small businesses.
> > The ordinance exempts employers with less than 15 workers, and
> > proponents said it would cost only $15,000 in money that's not already
> > budgeted.
> > American Airlines executive Donald J. Carty spoke in favor of the
> > ordinance and said the Fort Worth-based carrier has adopted a similar
> > policy for its workers.
> > "The true strength of our city lies in our diversity," he said.
> > The Rev. Flip Benham, director of the Dallas-based anti-abortion group
> > Operation Save America, spoke against the measure.
> > "It's a travesty that breaks my heart," he said. "The city hall has
> > declared itself as God. It's a direct attack on the word of God."
> >
> This person sees no attack on the word of God. Except, perhaps, by Flip
> Benham.
>
> Your mileage may differ.
>
> John Burgeson (Burgy)
>
> http://www.burgy.50megs.com
> (science/theology, quantum mechanics, baseball, ethics,
> humor, cars, philosophy and much more)
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Burgy -
<br> Below you have emphasized
the ethical aspects of liberalism. Here are excerpts of three
characteristics
of "liberalism" in theology from the <i>Westminster Dictionary of Christian
Theology</i> article on it by Donald E. Miller, followed by my comments.<i></i>
<p><i> </i>1. "Liberalism
is receptive to contemporary science, the arts and humanities. ... Christianity
is not viewed as the only expression of man's search for God or of God's
revelation to man."
<p> 2. "Liberals have been
sympathetic to applying the canons of historiography to their interpretations
of sacred scriptures. ... The Bible is seen by liberals as a human document
whose primary validity lies in the fact that it records the experience
of persons who are open to God's presence."
<p> 3. "Liberals stress
the ethical implications of Christianity. Christianity is not a dogma
to be believed, it is a way of life, a moral vision to be shared.... .
Liberals have often been optimistic about the possibilities for change
and have not infrequently seen evil as a product of ignorance rather than
the result of man's intrinsically evil nature."
<p> 1. I think that Christian
theology should be "receptive to contemporary science, the arts and
humanities,"
& especially that it must take the insights of science seriously.
But these things do not provide our fundamental understanding of God and
God's relationship with the world. They must have a ministerial,
rather than a magisterial, role in theology.
<br> In particular, the idea
that there are other sources of revelation, including the claims of other
religions, has to be treated with a great deal of caution. If there
are other sources of revelation on the same level as Christ then the Christian
understanding of the person and work of Christ have to be abandoned.
Jn.14:6 has to be modified to something like "I am one way to the Father
and you may find me attractive, but if not there are other ways."
<p> 2. I agree that the
Bible is a human document and that historical-critical methods should be
used in studying it. But it is a unique human document because it
is the record of witnesses to God's unique revelation in Christ.
Historical-critical methods, which are largely analytical, have to be
complemented
by a synthetic approach like canonical criticism which puts the pieces
back together and sees the canon as a whole.
<br> If we say that the Bible
is a record of human experiences of God's presence, we have to add
that those experiences were unique because God's presence for them was
unique - which is what has been meant traditionally by language about
revelation,
inspiration, &c. If this is not the case then we are open to
<u>anybody's</u> claims of experience - not only popular things like feminist
theology, black theology &c but, as I have noted before, the theology
of the "German Christians" which was based precisely on such experiential
claims.
<br> Lest I be misunderstood
- there can be legitimate feminist, black &c theologies if these are
understood as reflection upon God's revelation to Israel & in Christ
from feminist, black &c viewpoints. But that is not the same
as thinking that being feminine, black, &c give a person some unique
insight into God.
<p> 3. Here I have serious
disagreement. Christianity certainly has strong ethical implications
but it is first of all faith - in the full sense of knowledge, assent,
& trust - in the God revealed in the history of Israel & preeminently
in Christ. Jesus said - in accord with the Jewish tradition - that
the command to love God comes first & love of neighbor second.
The idea that ethics can be given precedence is connected with the optimistic
assessment of the human condition that Miller mentions - an assessment
that I think is at variance both with scripture and our experience of the
world.
<p> In summary: There are
a number of ways in which I agree with theological liberalism, but when
invited to become a card carrying liberal, I have to decline.
<br>
Shalom,
<br>
George
<p>George L. Murphy
<br><A HREF="http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/">http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/>
<br>"The Science-Theology Interface"
<p>John W Burgeson wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>I heard Rush Limbaugh the other day tell his audience
what a "liberal"
<br>was.
<p>I did not recognize myself, or anyone I know, in his rantings.
<p>What do YOU think a liberal thinks? Narrow it down -- a liberal
<br>Christian.
<p>I'll give you a start. Micah 6:8 is pretty important. Madison's "Memorial
<br>and Remonstrance" is pretty important. The Bill of Rights, particularly
<br>Amendment #1.
<p>In no particular order:
<p>Free speech
<br>Religion free from government interference, either positive or negative.
<br>Against any law that inserts a grim faced man in a blue suit with a
large
<br>gun into a doctor's office. In other words, pro-choice -- but NOT
<br>pro-abortion.
<br>Anti-racist in a wide meaning of that term. See all humanity as equal
<br>before God.
<br> People of color have
equal standing
<br> Women have equal standing
<br> People with different
sexual preferences have equal standing
<br>See diversity as a "good thing."
<br>Honor those of a different religious persuasion.
<br>Honor those with no religious persuasion.
<br>See Christianity as primarily a confessional, not a prescriptive
<br>religion.
<br>Subscribe, to a more or less extent, to Leonardo Boff's observation:
<p>One of Boff's most powerful books is Way of the Cross -- Way of Justice
<br>(Orbis, 1980) Written in blank verse, it is a series of meditations
on
<br>the stations of the cross, a traditional exercise of individualistic
<br>Catholic piety that Boff transforms into a communal exercise as well.
He
<br>effects this transformation by offering meditations on each of the
<br>"stations" of Jesus' original journey along the Via Dolorosa, all of
<br>which are followed by second meditations reflecting on the meaning
of the
<br>station for Jesus followers in today's world. The practice exemplifies
<br>Boff's conviction that theology must have "two eyes," one looking to
the
<br>past "where salvation broke in" and the other looking toward the present
<br>"where salvation becomes a reality here and now." The "way of the cross"
<br>focuses on the historical Jesus, but the "way of justice" focuses "on
the
<br>Christ of faith who continues his passion today in his brothers and
<br>sisters who are being condemned, tortured and killed for the cause
of
<br>justice" (p. viii) The parallels between what Jesus suffered then and
<br>what his followers suffer today are acute and heartrending. The book
has
<br>intense power, and will surely become one of the spiritual classics
of
<br>our time. Boff writes:
<p>"The eternal destiny of human beings will be measured by how much or
how
<br>little solidarity we have displayed with the hungry, the thirsty, the
<br>naked and the oppressed. In the end, we will be judged in terms of
love."
<p>This liberal has that motto taped to his PC monitor.
<p>Finally, the following good news came to me today from a fellow liberal:
<p>> Dallas City Council Approves Anti-Discrimination Ordinance
<br>> The Associated Press, May 8, 2002
<br>> DALLAS - The Dallas City Council on Wednesday adopted an ordinance
<br>> that prohibits discrimination against gays and lesbians in
employment,
<br>> housing and in public places such as hotels and restaurants.
<br>> The council voted 13-2 for the measure, which was pledged on
the
<br>> campaign trail by new Mayor Laura Miller. Violation of the
ordinance
<br>> will result in fines up to $500.
<br>> "Let us walk out of the shadow of intolerance and bigotry and
into the
<br>> sunshine of human rights," Councilman John Loza said.
<br>> The two councilmen who opposed the ordinance, Alan Walne and
Mitchell
<br>> Rasansky, said it would be too expensive for the city to enforce
in an
<br>> already tight budget year. Resansky also said the measure could
be too
<br>> expensive for small businesses.
<br>> The ordinance exempts employers with less than 15 workers,
and
<br>> proponents said it would cost only $15,000 in money that's
not already
<br>> budgeted.
<br>> American Airlines executive Donald J. Carty spoke in favor
of the
<br>> ordinance and said the Fort Worth-based carrier has adopted
a similar
<br>> policy for its workers.
<br>> "The true strength of our city lies in our diversity," he said.
<br>> The Rev. Flip Benham, director of the Dallas-based anti-abortion
group
<br>> Operation Save America, spoke against the measure.
<br>> "It's a travesty that breaks my heart," he said. "The city
hall has
<br>> declared itself as God. It's a direct attack on the word of
God."
<br>>
<br>This person sees no attack on the word of God. Except, perhaps, by
Flip
<br>Benham.
<p>Your mileage may differ.
<p>John Burgeson (Burgy)
<p><a href="http://www.burgy.50megs.com">http://www.burgy.50megs.com>
<br> (science/theology, quantum
mechanics, baseball, ethics,
<br> humor, cars, philosophy
and much more)</blockquote>
</html>