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Subject: Re: justification (was Re: Adam and Eve)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:55:40 -0400
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My further comment follows George's response below.
Bob Schneider
----- Original Message -----=20
From: george murphy=20
To: Robert Schneider=20
Cc: asa@calvin.edu=20
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:16 AM
Subject: justification (was Re: Adam and Eve)
Robert Schneider wrote:=20
See my remark below:=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "george murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>=20
To: "JW Burgeson" <hoss_radbourne@hotmail.com>=20
Cc: <rjschn39@bellsouth.net>; <asa@calvin.edu>=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:38 PM=20
Subject: Re: Adam and Eve=20
> JW Burgeson wrote:=20
>=20
> > Robert wrote: "If Christianity is the Way, it is a way of good =
works."=20
> >=20
> > OPosted o my PC monitor I have a quotation=20
> > from Leonardo Boff which reads:=20
> >=20
> > "The eternal destiny of human beings=20
> > will be measured by how much or how little solidarity=20
> > we have displayed with the hungry, the thirsty,=20
> > the naked, and the oppressed.=20
> > In the end, we will be judged in terms of love."=20
>=20
> This kind of thing is why the Reformation was necessary.=20
> =
George=20
>=20
It sounds as if Boff was commenting on Matt. 25:31-41. Did the =
Reformers=20
decide that that parable has nothing to do with the Christian life, =
and that=20
one is not to take literally the judgments given by the Son of Man? =
Did=20
they decide that one should only read Eph. 2:8-9 and ignore 10? Are =
we to=20
say, "Lord, Lord" and "well, I'm saved and that's all that matters" =
like the=20
Lutheran minister in the joke? I can't put my hands on my copy of =
the Joint=20
Roman Catholic-Lutheran Statement on Justification, but I believe =
there is a=20
statement in it to the effect that failure to show works of mercy to =
others=20
would call into question whether the person is really living a life =
of faith=20
and has been saved. George, do you have it handy and can look that =
up and=20
get the accurate wording?=20
I cannot imagine that we ought not to take seriously the =
message in the=20
Parable of the Coming of the Son of Man, or the message in Eph. 2:10 =
that=20
God has prepared beforehand a way of good works to be our way of =
life--and=20
embark upon it. I agree with Boff that in the end, we will be =
judged in=20
terms of love. Thank God, we shall be shown mercy as well as =
judgment.
The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification does =
not contain the statement you make.=20
What it says (para.37) is:=20
"We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived =
in faith, hope, and love - follow justification and are its fruits." =
When the justified live in Christ and act in the grace they receive, =
they bring forth, in biblical terms, good fruit. Since Christians =
struggle against sin their entire lives, this consequence of =
justification is also for them an obligation they must fulfill. Thus =
both Jesus and the apostolic Scriptures admonish Christians to bring =
forth the works of love."=20
& in fact Luther & the Lutheran tradition generally (in spite =
of my earlier joke) have always taught that good works are a consequence =
of living faith & are expected of Christians. What we have argued =
strenuously against is the notion that good works themselves justify. & =
in fact anyone can see the elementary error in the following argument:=20
Those who have a living faith are saved.=20
Those who have a living faith do good works.=20
Therefore we are saved by doing good works.=20
Good works are, if you will, a symptom of living faith, & one =
can understand the parable of the last judgment in this sense. While =
one has to be careful about harmonizing Paul & Matthew, it is really =
necessary to read Mt.25:31-46 in the light of Romans & Galatians, not =
the other way around.=20
You can do justice to the Matthean text in that way, but if you =
interpret the Matthew text as teaching salvation by works & then try to =
make sense of Paul in that light you have to distort or mutilate Paul.=20
Your rhetorical questions envision a straw man, an =
understanding of "justification by faith" in which one is saved by mere =
historic faith, assensus, or by reciting the Apostle's Creed. That is =
of course a complete misreading. & this straw man is able to maintain =
some semblance of life only because you ignore what I said earlier about =
the relationship of Eph.2:10 to 8-9. I am not ignoring v.10 but am =
understanding it in relationship with 8-9. You, on the other hand, seem =
to want to downplay 8-9.=20
I realize that this has a somewhat polemical tone but in this =
case I won't apologize for that. There is good reason why the doctrine =
of justification has been called articulus stantis et cadentis =
ecclessiae.=20
=
Shalom,=20
=
George=20
George L. Murphy=20
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/=20
"The Science-Theology Interface"=20
=20
Bob's comment:
Perhaps the statement I was trying to reproduce from memory came in =
one of the accompanying documents to the final Joint Declaration.=20
To repeat Paragraph 37 of the Joint Declaration:
37.We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in =
faith, hope and love - follow justification and are its fruits. When the =
justified live in Christ and act in the grace they receive, they bring =
forth, in biblical terms, good fruit. Since Christians struggle against =
sin their entire lives, this consequence of justification is also for =
them an obligation they must fulfill. Thus both Jesus and the apostolic =
Scriptures admonish Christians to bring forth the works of love.=20
I wonder if George and I are in part talking past each other. I =
have been emphasizing the notion in this statement that "this =
consequence of justification is also for them an obligation they must =
fulfill" but I seem to be misunderstood as saying that I think works can =
justify, period. I don't believe that. Nor am I trying to interpret =
Eph. 2:10 apart from 2:8-9, just the opposte: I am criticising those =
who interpret 2:8-9 apart from 2:10. I think that walking the way of =
good works is the heart of the Christian life and that it is simply =
wrong to downplay them. So much of the polemic regarding justification =
by faith, in my view, has resulted, perhaps as an unintended =
consequence, in that very consequence. That is the point I am making.
As for interpreting Matt. 25:31ff in the light of Romans and =
Galatians and not the other way around, I reject as a hermeneutical =
principle that the gospels should be interpreted as a matter of course =
in the light of Paul's gospel. Sorry, the NT is multivalent, in my =
view, and I don't think we should reduce its theology to Paul on any =
question, including justification and salvation. While it is too =
sweeping an assertion, I think there is some justice to John Dominick =
Crossan's remark that "If you come to Jesus through Paul, you will =
understand Jesus incorrectly; if you come to Paul through Jesus, you =
will understand Paul differently." I find the remark fits so many of my =
former students who always read Jesus through the lens of Paul, and so =
often do understand Jesus incorrectly. Perhaps, George, what is going =
on here, is that I am writing in terms of those experiences, and you are =
writing in terms of your strong convictions about the Lutheran =
interpretation of Paul. Do forgive me if I am misreading you. I =
respect your convictions and don't mind a little polemic.
If there is a misreading of my thinking, it is in your thinking =
that I am treating faith as "assensus." I would rather say that it =
seems at times that many Protestants treat "justification by faith" as =
"assensus": all you have to do is believe that, and no works, please. =
In fact, the notion of faith as "assensus" is a point of view that I =
often challenge, because, while it is not absent from the notion of =
"faith" in its broader sense, the primary and guiding meaning of "faith" =
("pistis") is trust. The question I think needs to be asked, and I =
think it is a valid one, is that if good works are absent, and granted =
that they are the fruit of faith, then where is the faith? or what kind =
of "faith" is it? If a Christian believer has no sense of obligation to =
do good works, where does the problem lie? In a lack of faith (trust)? =
In a lack of responding to the kind of exhortation to the Christian life =
that Eph. 2:10 gives? In a notion of faith as "assensus" to the =
doctrine of justification by faith, as stated above? Elsewhere? =20
A NOTE TO ALL: I'll wait a day in case anyone wants to reply to this, =
but I'm am overwhelmed with other responsibilities right now and intend =
to go off the list for a while.
Bob Schneider
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