Re: Genesis One and Concordism (was a lot of other things previously)

From: Jonathan Clarke (jdac@alphalink.com.au)
Date: Sat Feb 16 2002 - 17:36:35 EST

  • Next message: Jan de Koning: "Re: Old-Earth Creationism"

    Hi Michael

    Thank you for this timely and (at times) all to neccessary reminder, at least
    for .e

    Blessings

    Jon

    Michael Roberts wrote:

    > I have felt uneasy about some of these exchanges. We need to think who is
    > the person sending the e-mail, which may or may not be rubbish. It may be a
    > weak or struggling Christian who is asking desperate questions as they have
    > problems with their faith. Thus we need to be gentle in our response.
    >
    > But if it is a regular e.g. Glenn, Jon. George, Howard etc we can be more
    > agressive and shoot from the hip. I dont think I could unsettle them in
    > their faith, but I still need to be reasonably polite. I can be robust.
    >
    > There must be many who are on thsi listserve who are struggling in their
    > faith. They need our help and at times we need to avoid going for them too
    > robustly. We can reserve our pungent replies to the above mentioned and
    > myself.
    >
    > There is no point winning an argument if we lose a soul and probably ours as
    > well.
    >
    > To Jim a motto from Herbert Butterfield a Christian historian of the last
    > generation,
    >
    > "Hold on to Christ, and for the rest be uncommitted"
    >
    > Remember it is the first sunday of lent tomorrow.
    >
    > Michael
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Jim Eisele" <jeisele@starpower.net>
    > To: "Walter Hicks" <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
    > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 3:00 PM
    > Subject: FW: Genesis One and Concordism (was a lot of other things
    > previously)
    >
    > > BTW, Walter, feel free to jump in on any e-mail addressed to me. I don't
    > > have anywhere near close to enough time to respond. Thanks to everyone
    > for
    > > their great participation (and forgiveness!!!!) -Jim
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Jim Eisele [mailto:jeisele@starpower.net]
    > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:41 PM
    > > To: Walter Hicks; asa@calvin.edu
    > > Subject: RE: Genesis One and Concordism (was a lot of other things
    > > previously)
    > >
    > >
    > > I am not trying to "form an alliance" to vote everyone else off the
    > island.
    > > But Walter has done it again!!! I read up to "astronauts" and got very
    > > convicted.
    > > Did this happen to anyone else?? -Jim (thank you, thank you, thank you
    > > Walter)
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
    > > Behalf Of Walter Hicks
    > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 6:13 PM
    > > To: Jim Eisele
    > > Cc: asa@calvin.edu
    > > Subject: Re: Genesis One and Concordism (was a lot of other things
    > > previously)
    > >
    > >
    > > Before anyone gets too excited, someone corrected me on the usage of the
    > > phrase "jump my bones". That part is retracted.
    > >
    > > Back in the late 60's, Eric Von Daniken wrote a book called "Chariots of
    > > the Gods?". I DO NOT ENDORSE THIS BOOK!. However, the author voices the
    > > opinion that humans were visited by astronauts and they were told by
    > > them how the earth and humanity came about. As best they could, they
    > > remembered this story and repeated it from generation to generation.
    > > They wrote it down when they had learned how to write. (A recent
    > > Discovery Channel presentation attributed the first books of the Bible
    > > to Moses since he learned to write in Egypt.)
    > >
    > > Replace the astronauts with God or the HS and is this not a credible
    > > story?
    > >
    > > Walt
    > >
    > >
    > > Jim Eisele wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Hi Walter. I've only read the the first few words of your post. But
    > > you're
    > > > now my best e-mail friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -Jim
    > > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: Walter Hicks [mailto:wallyshoes@mindspring.com]
    > > > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 4:55 PM
    > > > To: Jim Eisele
    > > > Cc: phseely@aol.com; asa@calvin.edu
    > > > Subject: Re: Genesis One and Concordism (was a lot of other things
    > > > previously)
    > > >
    > > > Hi Jim,
    > > >
    > > > So that you will not feel 100% alone, I have always thought of Genesis
    > > > One as amazingly close to what current science has to say. I don't
    > > > consider it to be a science textbook, but the general structure is
    > > > something that strikes me as something quite unexpected from a culture
    > > > thousands of years old. I may be wrong but I think that other cultures
    > > > were far removed from anything like this and had rather bizarre outlooks
    > > > by modern standards. In fact, as recently as the fifties (when I was in
    > > > college), The big bang was ridiculed as something that was adopted only
    > > > by non atheists who believed in "a beginning" to the universe. When the
    > > > background radiation was discovered, Jastro(?) noted that when
    > > > astronomers climbed to the top of mountain of discovery, they found it
    > > > inhabited by philosophers who had been there for thousands of years. (or
    > > > something like that).
    > > >
    > > > I have always taken Genesis One to indicate some degree of "insider
    > > > knowledge". They often jump my bones for that attitude.
    > > >
    > > > I may not be correct, but at least I am company.
    > > >
    > > > Walt
    > > >
    > > > Jim Eisele wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Hi Paul. In Gen 1:1 and concordism (was Apology) you wrote
    > > > >
    > > > > >Preach God as a Father caring enough to speak to his little children
    > in
    > > > > terms of their pre-understanding.
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks for that remark. It fits beautifully.
    > > > >
    > > > > I wanted to at least respond to that much. We may disagree about
    > > Genesis
    > > > > One, but I have no argument with that.
    > > > >
    > > > > As far as your comments about Genesis One, I haven't had time to fully
    > > > > review them yet.
    > > > > One quick thought, though.
    > > > >
    > > > > You wrote
    > > > >
    > > > > >Gen 1:1 "God created the heavens and the earth." is taken by most
    > > > scholars
    > > > > >today as either an introductory title or summary covering the entire
    > > > > creation
    > > > > >story down to 2:4
    > > > >
    > > > > Most, perhaps, but not all. And have scholars ever been wrong before?
    > > I
    > > > > haven't studied all the work of all the scholars. But could "God
    > > created
    > > > > the heavens and the earth" simply mean that God created the heavens
    > and
    > > > the
    > > > > earth? I don't want to disrespect scholarship, I just want to debate
    > > that
    > > > > notion.
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm starting to realize that
    > we
    > > > have
    > > > > more in common than I thought. -Jim
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > ===================================
    > > > Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
    > > >
    > > > In any consistent theory, there must
    > > > exist true but not provable statements.
    > > > (Godel's Theorem)
    > > >
    > > > You can only find the truth with logic
    > > > If you have already found the truth
    > > > without it. (G.K. Chesterton)
    > > > ===================================
    > >
    > > --
    > > ===================================
    > > Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
    > >
    > > In any consistent theory, there must
    > > exist true but not provable statements.
    > > (Godel's Theorem)
    > >
    > > You can only find the truth with logic
    > > If you have already found the truth
    > > without it. (G.K. Chesterton)
    > > ===================================
    > >
    > >
    > >



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