Re: Phil Johnson

From: Moorad Alexanian (alexanian@uncwil.edu)
Date: Tue Oct 02 2001 - 11:52:56 EDT

  • Next message: Vernon Jenkins: "Re: Phil Johnson"

    Birds fly yet still know nothing about aerodynamics. That was the spirit of
    my comment. Moorad

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Darryl Maddox" <dpmaddox@arn.net>
    To: "Moorad Alexanian" <alexanian@uncwil.edu>; "Jonathan Clarke"
    <jdac@alphalink.com.au>
    Cc: "asa" <asa@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:53 AM
    Subject: Re: Phil Johnson

    > Hello Moorad and group.
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Moorad Alexanian" <alexanian@uncwil.edu>
    > To: "Jonathan Clarke" <jdac@alphalink.com.au>
    > Cc: "asa" <asa@calvin.edu>
    > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 7:50 AM
    > Subject: Re: Phil Johnson
    >
    >
    > > You will be surprised how many practicing scientists know nothing of
    > > metaphysics and, in fact, care about it!
    >
    > Did you mean to say they do not care about metaphysics or to say that
    > despite the fact they know little of it they do care about it as you
    stated?
    > When I read this it seemed to me you might have made a simple misstatement
    > here and the sentence as written did not say what you intended to say.
    >
    > There is not much need for
    > > metaphysics in the experimental sciences. Moorad
    >
    > I ask the following because I perhaps fall into that group of scientists
    who
    > don't know much about metaphysics but do care a bit about it.
    >
    > Do the following beliefs constitute a metaphysical background to the way I
    > do my research?
    >
    > 1) A belief in cause and effect in the macroscopic world (geology done on
    a
    > scale of things visible with an electron microscope and larger, up to and
    > including laboratory chemical analysis of rocks, and field interpretations
    > of outcrops based on lab experiments or real time real world measurements
    of
    > processses and their results).
    >
    > 2) A belief in the rules of deductive logic applied in cases where I
    believe
    > or know all the variables have been accounted for and therefore only one
    > answer is possible.
    >
    > 3) A belief in the rules of inductive logic where I can not eliminate all
    > the variables or possibilities but can show by that some processes did not
    > cause the affect I am seeing and that one or more other could have caused
    > it?
    >
    > It seems to me these are metaphysical assumptions which form the
    background
    > to my work. But perhaps not; maybe they are something else. I welcome
    > comments from any who have an opinion.
    >
    > Darryl
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Jonathan Clarke" <jdac@alphalink.com.au>
    > > Cc: "asa" <asa@calvin.edu>
    > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 7:48 AM
    > > Subject: Re: Phil Johnson
    > >
    > >
    > > > Hi Moorad
    > > >
    > > > All sciences raise questions that interact with the scientists
    > > metaphysics, not
    > > > just the historical sciences. The history of Galileo, Newton,
    > cosmology,
    > > and
    > > > quantum theory all show this.
    > > >
    > > > GB
    > > >
    > > > Jon
    > > >
    > > > "Moorad Alexanian" wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002795
    > > > >
    > > > > One is not seeking gaps. A scientist does not cease to be human,
    with
    > > all the
    > > > > headaches that go with that, when doing science. Questions outside
    > > science
    > > > > whirl in one's head and such are the questions that are only
    answered
    > > within
    > > > > the realm that lies beyond the physical. It is the questions raised
    in
    > > > > historical biology that are by nature in the areas that question our
    > > > > philosophical assumptions and overlap with theological issues.
    Moorad
    > > > >
    > > > > >===== Original Message From Jonathan Clarke <jdac@alphalink.com.au>
    > > =====
    > > > > >Moorad
    > > > > >
    > > > > >But why only seek these gaps in biology? Why not in cosmology
    also?
    > > The
    > > > > >supporters of ID have never come clean or even answered this
    > question.
    > > In
    > > > > the end
    > > > > >it is an argument based on ignorance. We can't explain it, so it
    > must
    > > be
    > > > > God.
    > > > > >This is not the God of the Bible, the God who makes the winds blow,
    > the
    > > sun
    > > > > shine,
    > > > > >and the rain fall. Why don't we seek gaps in meteorology and
    > astronomy
    > > so as
    > > > > to
    > > > > >lead people to God?
    > > > > >
    > > > > >GB
    > > > > >
    > > > > >Jon
    > > > > >
    > > > > >"Moorad Alexanian" wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > >> X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002795
    > > > > >> Sender: asa-owner@udomo5.calvin.edu
    > > > > >> Precedence: bulk
    > > > > >>
    > > > > >> It is not a proof that will force people into belief but a dead
    end
    > > to
    > > > > >> scientific pursuit. It is not inconceivable that there can be a
    > proof
    > > that
    > > > > >> essentially invalidates the claims of evolutionary theory. Isn't
    > that
    > > in
    > > > > >> essence what the ID movement is all about? I am toying with the
    > > notion
    > > > > that a
    > > > > >> genuine scientific search for answers becomes so fruitless that
    it
    > > leads to
    > > > > >> belief. Moorad
    > > > > >>
    > > > > >> >===== Original Message From "D. F. Siemens, Jr."
    > > <dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
    > > > > =====
    > > > > >> >On Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:46:21 -0400 "Moorad
    > > > > >> >Alexanian<alexanian@uncwil.edu>" <alexanian@uncwil.edu> writes:
    > > > > >> >> As I wrote you can do some intellectual gymnastics and
    reconcile
    > > your
    > > > > >> >> theology
    > > > > >> >> with evolutionary theory. I am not ready to do that yet.
    > However,
    > > > > >> >> within the
    > > > > >> >> context of a scientific theory, it is hard to reach such a
    > > position
    > > > > >> >> that those
    > > > > >> >> proposing it will throw up their hands and say there must be a
    > > God.
    > > > > >> >> One must
    > > > > >> >> have a sort of Godel type theorem negating the possibility of
    > > > > >> >> evolutionary
    > > > > >> >> theory in order for all scientists to discard it and become
    > > > > >> >> believers. I do
    > > > > >> >> not think that is possible for otherwise there is no need of
    > faith
    > > > > >> >> which goes
    > > > > >> >> contrary to the nature of God. Moorad
    > > > > >> >>
    > > > > >> >>
    > > > > >> >Moorad,
    > > > > >> >I'm having trouble with this. How can there be a proof that will
    > > coerce
    > > > > >> >belief in God? Again, you confuse a scientific theory with
    denying
    > > the
    > > > > >> >existence of the deity, when the problem is with the atheism,
    > > materialism
    > > > > >> >and scientism which are not part of science at all.
    > > > > >> >Dave
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Oct 02 2001 - 11:52:18 EDT