Re: Phil Johnson

From: Jonathan Clarke (jdac@alphalink.com.au)
Date: Tue Oct 02 2001 - 07:38:16 EDT

  • Next message: Jonathan Clarke: "Re: Phil Johnson"

    Hi Joel

    Of course there are many such gaps in our understanding of the physical history of
    the earth. What went on in the first 500 million years of earth history is one.
    Then in the formation of solar systems there is the problem of the formation of
    Neptune and Uranus. But these difficult problems are not invested with the same
    metaphysical content as problems in the history of life by the ID and OEC camps,
    and I can't see why except that life is somehow to be treated differently from non
    life. There is no compelling theological reason ever given for this, it is just
    assumed. ironically, not all gaps in our knowledge of the history of life are
    equal. Some of the mass extinctions, especially that of the Permo-Triassic, have
    no good explanation but the ID people never point to that gap as a fingerprint of
    God.

    "R. Joel Duff" wrote:

    > Jonathan,
    > Exactly! I've raised this exact point in the past several times to no
    > avail. Others have raised it also and yet I can't remember any specific
    > responses from the ID community to this point other than possibly that
    > there are bigger fish and when they become established they look into this
    > area. That's pretty weak.
    >
    > Why not postulate gaps in geology. Could not the Cambrian explosion be
    > explained by ID as easily by intervention and preservation (or lack of
    > preservation) of particular layers of rock rather than extraordinary events
    > in the biology of the organisms? This focus solely on biology as the
    > focus of God's creation by the ID camp has always mystified me.
    > Regards,
    > Joel
    >
    > >
    > >GB
    > >
    > >Jon
    > >
    > >"Moorad Alexanian" wrote:
    > >
    > >> X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002795
    > >> Sender: asa-owner@udomo5.calvin.edu
    > >> Precedence: bulk
    > >>
    > >> It is not a proof that will force people into belief but a dead end to
    > >> scientific pursuit. It is not inconceivable that there can be a proof that
    > >> essentially invalidates the claims of evolutionary theory. Isn't that in
    > >> essence what the ID movement is all about? I am toying with the notion
    > that a
    > >> genuine scientific search for answers becomes so fruitless that it leads to
    > >> belief. Moorad
    > >>
    > >> >===== Original Message From "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
    > =====
    > >> >On Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:46:21 -0400 "Moorad
    > >> >Alexanian<alexanian@uncwil.edu>" <alexanian@uncwil.edu> writes:
    > >> >> As I wrote you can do some intellectual gymnastics and reconcile your
    > >> >> theology
    > >> >> with evolutionary theory. I am not ready to do that yet. However,
    > >> >> within the
    > >> >> context of a scientific theory, it is hard to reach such a position
    > >> >> that those
    > >> >> proposing it will throw up their hands and say there must be a God.
    > >> >> One must
    > >> >> have a sort of Godel type theorem negating the possibility of
    > >> >> evolutionary
    > >> >> theory in order for all scientists to discard it and become
    > >> >> believers. I do
    > >> >> not think that is possible for otherwise there is no need of faith
    > >> >> which goes
    > >> >> contrary to the nature of God. Moorad
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >Moorad,
    > >> >I'm having trouble with this. How can there be a proof that will coerce
    > >> >belief in God? Again, you confuse a scientific theory with denying the
    > >> >existence of the deity, when the problem is with the atheism, materialism
    > >> >and scientism which are not part of science at all.
    > >> >Dave
    > >
    > *******************************************
    > Dr. R. Joel Duff, Assistant Professor
    > Dept. of Biology, ASEC 185
    > Campus Mail 3908
    > University of Akron
    > Akron, OH 44325-3908
    > Office: 330-972-6077
    > e-mail: rjduff@uakron.edu
    > http://www.uakron.edu/biology/duff/duff.htm
    > *******************************************
    >
    > "The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability
    > to uninformed opinion."
    >
    > Reporter John Lawton speaking to the American Association of Broadcast
    > Journalists in 1995



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