Re: New thread: Mathematical truth (Was a sin-off of Re: How Einsteinand Hammond proved God exists)

From: george murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Tue Sep 04 2001 - 23:00:25 EDT

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    Tom Pearson wrote:

    > At 04:35 PM 09/04/2001 -0400, George Andrews Jr. wrote:
    >
    > >Why would a view of a deity who limits him/herself be "improper"?
    >
    > If we are talking about the Christian deity, then it's because such a
    > proposal wreaks havoc with the traditional doctrine of God. That doctrine
    > posits certain attributes of God -- omnipotence, omniscience,
    > omnibenevolence, et al -- as being essential expressions of God's being.
    > You cannot "limit" any of those attributes without abandoning the
    > traditional portrayal of the Christian God. A Christian God whose
    > omnipotence can be curtailed may turn out to be a God who cannot perform
    > the miracle of redeeming and reconciling his fallen creation. A Christian
    > God whose omniscience can be tampered with may not in fact know the needs
    > and sufferings of his own flock (Matthew 6:32). We may not like the
    > traditional depiction of God's being, and feel it needs revision, but any
    > revision will produce a different picture of God.
    >
    > Furthermore, the notion that the Christian God can "limit himself" is
    > simply incoherent. If, say, God's omnipotence is to be limited, what is it
    > within God that would do the limiting? Is there something more omnipotent
    > than God's omnipotence that would limit God's omnipotence? And what kind
    > of thing is "limited omnipotence," or "limited omniscience"? The questions
    > quickly become thoroughly gnarled. Most of the arguments of this sort that
    > I have encountered make some type of distinction between God's being (as
    > exemplified in his traditional attributes) and God's will. Then, as the
    > argument goes, God can choose to limit himself by exercising his will. But
    > this makes God's will more omnipotent than God's omnipotence, and we are
    > back to incoherence. In addition, do we really want to bifurcate God into
    > being and will, and pit the latter against the former, such that God has to
    > constrain his very being in order to function in accord with the biblical
    > account? It all sounds "improper" to me.

            Paul's statement about Christ's kenosis in Phil.2:5-11 clearly point to
    some sort of self-limitation on the part of God. We are to start from there &
    adapt our understanding of God's being & will to that rather than the other way
    around.

    Shalom,

    George

    George L. Murphy
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    "The Science-Theology Interface"



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