On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:11:55 -0700 John W Burgeson <burgytwo@juno.com>
writes:
in part
>
> Elsewhere I've commented to George Murphy on the Kingsley quotation,
> so
> I'll refer you to that
> post. Is the universe we inhabit a "finished thing" (Van Till's
> ideas) or
> is it more
> like a violin on which God sometimes plays a tune. The fact is that
> we
> know that God
> has "played a tune"on it on occasion -- the Cana wine is my
> favorite
> example. I do not
> see that "playing a tune" makes his attributes any less wiser
> (Kingsley)
> than if he had
> "fully endowed" the universe from the start. Indeed, I have a
> difficulty
> admiring the God Van Till
> and Kingsley propose as much as one who gets involved with us more
> often.
>
> Burgy (John Burgeson)
>
Burgy, even if you don't think much of philosophers looking over your
shoulder, we serve a purpose. For example, scientists get so involved in
methodology that many get to thinking that that's all there is to
discover and so espouse naive materialism. You're "doing" philosophy when
you recognize that the scientist's need to look for material causes does
not eliminate alternative approaches. Even among the sciences, that one
can in principle present a physical description of animal activity,
including the mental, does not mean that the physical exhausts the
phenomena.
We are creatures of time, so enmeshed that we find it almost impossible
to think outside of the temporal parameter. This means that "one who gets
involved with us more often" is likely to be viewed as one who is in
time, a cause among other causes of physical phenomena. This is
compatible with process theology, which restricts God to the present even
as we are restricted to the present: he's smarter and more powerful than
we, but must make predictions (guesses about the future) as we do.
William Lane Craig, "Design and the Cosmological Argument," pp. 332-359
in Dembski, Mere Creation: Science, Faith & Intelligent Design, shows
that this won't work. Consequently, the entire history of the universe is
known, set, complete, etc., at the moment of creation, when time began.
This notion is essential to the recognition that the Creator is outside
of the space-time creation, different in kind from the causes we look for
within the universe. Each regularity and each miracle was built in in the
universe's origin. Every moment of time is totally depended on the
Creator's will, even though we often tend to separate creation and
providence.
Some folks get all bent out of shape at the notion that God knows the end
from the beginning and think that then God is responsible for all my
actions. They need to recognize that knowing is not equivalent to
causing. He was not surprised when Adam sinned. He did not scramble to
work out how he would provide salvation. Nor did he await my decision
about accepting that gift to start preparing a place for me. This is
because all time and space is eternally open to him. It's hard for us to
take this in, so we lapse into temporal ascription, even when we know
better.
Dave
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