Re: Where is man? (was RE: Faith was: Creation Ex Nihilio and other journals)

From: PHSEELY@aol.com
Date: Sat Feb 03 2001 - 15:44:57 EST

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    Glenn wrote:

    << But even given that I can't prove my version of the flood, I CAN PROVE THAT
     THE FLOOD SCENARIOS OFFERED BY OTHER WIDELY ACCEPTED VIEWS ARE ABSOLUTELY
    CONTRADICTED BY THE DATA. (I would clarify that by claiming that the flood
     occurs in Mesopotamia, one is thereby proclaiming what he believes is the
     historical reality of the flood--which is totally at odds with the
     historical/scientific data). The only way out is to make the flood account
     be a nice little story in which the details don't matter. >>

    In my opinion a Mesopotamian flood is much more in accord with the
    historical, scientific and biblical data than any other theory. There are
    archaeological flood strata which correlate with the written records of
    Sumer. As Jack Finegan wrote:

    "Since in Sumerian tradition Shuruppak was the last ruling city before the
    flood and Kish was the first thereafter, it was presumably the inundation
    attested at Shuruppak between the Jemdet Nasr and Early Dynastic periods (and
    at Uruk and Kish at about the same time) that was the historic flood so long
    remembered. The date was about 2900." [Jack Finegan, Archaeological History
    of the Ancient Middle East (Boulder, CO: Westview, 1979) 26]

    Max Mallowan concluded similarly,
    "That the Flood account in the Old Testament was based on a real event which
    may have occurred in about 2900 B.C., or perhaps a century or more after, at
    the beginning of the Early Dynastic period." [Max Mallowan, "Noah's Flood
    Reconsidered," Iraq 26 (1964) 81; the whole article should be read]

    Both men are capable Near Eastern archaeologists, neither are
    fundamentalists, and they are not the only ones to draw this conclusion. In
    addition, a Mesopotamian flood, though not matching the biblical account on a
    one to one basis, still coheres reasonable well with it.

    As nice as the Mediterranean flood is from a geological point of view, it is
    far from agreeing with the details of the biblical account.

    1. The date of the Flood
    The genealogy of Gen 11:10-26 only gives 10 generations from the Flood to
    Abraham. Even if the genealogy has left out some generations, it cannot be
    stretched to 5.5 million years. Such a stretch would mean that on average,
    there were over 500,000 years between each generation! How could an oral
    tradition be kept in tact from even the first generation to the second, much
    less through ten of them? No one can claim to take the genealogy seriously
    and do this to it. In addition, the tower of Babel follows the Flood
    chronologically and cannot be dated before 3500 BC (if the biblical details
    are accurate). Are we really to believe that mankind spoke the same language
    from 5.5 million BC until 3500 BC?

    2. The depth and extent of the Flood:
    The biblical account describes the Flood as covering "all the high mountains"
    (Gen 7:19); and the mountains of Urartu (Ararat) are in view (Gen 8:4). Since
    Urartu centered around Lake Van, the Bible is describing a flood that covered
    mountains a good 10,000 feet higher than the Mediterranean Sea. There is no
    way the bursting dam of the Mediterranean (or the Black Sea) could result in
    flood waters rising that high or covering an area that broad.

    3. The landing place of the ark:
    The ark lands in the mountains of Urartu (Gen 8:4). Although Urartu may have
    come within a couple hundred miles or so of Adana, it is still necessary to
    get the ark up at least 1000 and probably 1500 feet or more higher than the
    level of the Mediterranean to have it's landing spot match the biblical
    account. And, given that Urartu centered around Lake Van and only extended so
    far west for around 30 of its 300-year existence, it is improbable that the
    bibliical account is referring to mountains that far west or that low. The
    most probable interpretation of the biblical account, if the details are
    accurate, is that the ark landed at least a mile above sea level.

    4. The cultural level at the time of the Flood
    Although one can posit a Chalcolithic culture (as Gen 4 specifies) at 5.5
    million BC, it is improbable archaeologically and is a violation of Occam's
    valuable principle that entities to support a theory should not be multiplied.

    5. The source of the water of the Flood
    In the biblical account, the water is from the sea which is above the
    firmament and below the earth, the waters of the great Deep which surround
    the biblical universe (Gen 7:11). The water that produced the Flood is not
    from the sea surrounding the earth, that is, the sea inside the biblical
    universe; but this sea is the source of the water in the Mediterranean flood.

    6. The land after the Flood
    After the biblical Flood the land that was flooded dries off. The land that
    was flooded by the Mediterranean flood is still under water. The
    Mediterranean theory cannot account for Gen 8:5-13.

    In short, the Mediterranean hypothesis is at least as far from the biblical
    description as any other hypothesis and probably further. The only way out
    for those who hold it "is to make the flood account be a nice little story in
    which the details don't matter."

    This brings me to the point of this post: All evangelicals, regardless of
    their theory of the Flood, are rejecting some biblical data. Consequently,
    there is no place for speaking against the theories of others in capital
    letters---whether actually written or only inferred by attitude. True?

    Paul



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