heat problem

From: glenn morton (mortongr@flash.net)
Date: Mon Jul 31 2000 - 13:06:37 EDT

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    Allan Roy wrote of the salinity problem:

    "AR: Woodmorappe has address all this in his book "Noah's Ark, a
    feasibility study." There is no reason for me to respond to this for it has
    already been done and anyone attempting to discuss models with Creationary
    Catastrophists should already be familiar with his comments. "

    Allen, He doesn't solve this problem at all. He arm-waves. He says,

    "For instance, among FW fish, the median salt toxicity for Lepomis
    cyanellus was reported as just over one-tenth the salinity of SW, yet some
    individuals of L. cyanellus were found to be able to tolerate at least
    one-fourth of the salinity of SW. The salinity tolerance of largemouth bass
    (Micropterus salmoides) also varies by indivual: ranging from one-fourth to
    almost one-half the salinity of SW." P. 147

    Woodmorape stacks the deck by making ASSUMPTIONS FOR WHICH THERE IS NO
    EVIDENCE in order to account for the survival of the fish. He notes that
    freshwater today is about 1% of all global waters. This is about right. So,
    Woodmorappe changes the game to a more favorable position (below ppt=parts
    per thousand):

    "Suppose for illustrative purposes, that the antediluvian marine water was
    only 20ppt saline (instead of the 35 ppt today), and that FW before the
    Flood accounted for 50% of all earth's surface water (instead of the tiny
    percentage today). During the Flood, if completely homogenized, the
    resulting mixture would, of course, have been 10ppt saline (or just under
    1/3 of the salinity of contemporary SW). Let us now allow for minor
    nonhomogeneities in the salinity of the shoreless ocean, conservatively
    assuming that the difference in salinity in different layers of floodwater
    and/or different geographic regions of floodwater was only on the order of
    plus or minus 5ppt (parts per thousand). This means that he floodwaters
    would have had a salinity range of 5-15 ppt dissolved salts. As we have
    seen, the vast majority of stenohaline SW and FW fish could have survived
    the Flood in waters of such a salinity range, even without taking into
    account any considerable microevolutionary changes since the Flood,nor any
    strong stratification of floodwater layers with respect to salinity, which
    is discussed next." ~ John Woodmorappe, Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study,
    (Santee: Institute for Creation Research, 1996),p. 148

    What he ignores and doesn't tell the reader is the consequences which arise
    from having a global flood at all. Given that YECs like Woodmorappe believe
    that all the sedimentary layers were deposited from the waters of the
    global flood within the flood year, this would include all the salt that we
    find sandwiched in the sedimentary rocks. Sedimentary salt must also have
    been contained in the flood waters at the very beginning of the flood. The
    reason for this is that there are fossils below the salt and fossils above
    the salt and according to YEC dogma, fossilization can't occur unless there
    is a catastrophic sedimentation. Thus the existence of fossils in rocks
    covered by the salt deposits and in rocks covering the salt proves that the
    salt was deposited in the middle of the flood.

    Now here is the problem. If all this salt was in the flood waters, the
    salinity would NOT BE LESS THAN THAT OF TODAY. Indeed, the salinity of the
    flood waters, during the erosive period would have to actually be greater
    than today. This is because the erosion all over the earth would dissolve
    the salt on the pre-flood continents. And since the salt we see on the
    continents sandwiched in the rocks today had to have been removed from the
    flood waters, the only inescapable conclusion is that the flood waters were
    MORE salty, not less.

    Consider how salty they must have been. We know that the salt in the
    sedimentary column is about 30% of the salt in the oceans. Thus, the oceans
    must have had at least 30% more salt during the flood. Here is what a
    reference sent me by Steve Austin said:

    "Holser (personal communications, 1981) has estimated that the entire
    inventory of halite in sedimentary rocks of all ages amounts ot ca. 30% of
    the NaCl content of the oceans. There is no disagreement between the two
    estimates." ~ Heinrich D. Holland, The Chemical Evolution of the
    Atmosphere and Oceans, (Princeton Univ. Press, 1984, p. 461

    This has two consequences for YEC. First, the concept that one can date the
    oceans by means of the salt content is out because there is a limit to how
    much salt can be sent back into the ocean and two, the salt we see had to
    have been originally dissolved in the flood waters.

    Since NO freshwater fish mentioned by Woodmorappe can survive more than 50%
    of the current ocean salinity, it is highly unlikely that they could
    survive an ocean with 30% more salt.

    Allen, you need a new apologetical model.
    glenn

    Foundation, Fall and Flood
    Adam, Apes and Anthropology
    http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm

    Lots of information on creation/evolution



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