Re: natural selection in salvation history (was Johnson//evolutionimplies atheism)

From: RDehaan237@aol.com
Date: Mon Jul 24 2000 - 07:47:21 EDT

  • Next message: RDehaan237@aol.com: "Re: natural selection in salvation history (was Johnson//evolutionimplies atheism)"

    In a message dated 7/23/2000 6:51:28 PM, dfsiemensjr@juno.com writes:

    << I make no assumptions about a straight line rise. I know too much history
    to assume that. There will be interpretations which work but which are
    mistaken, and some mistakes that won't work. I sometimes feel that "got
    on his horse and rode off madly in all directions" fits the situation all
    to closely. I am also aware that we cannot anticipate breakthroughs. When
    I took course in biology, nobody anticipated DNA, RNA, the genetic code,
    the internal structure of the cell, or the techniques which allow
    visualization of a lot of this. I am simply noting that we now have a
    basis for understanding the "mechanisms" of cellular life and organism
    development. We didn't have them before.>>

    Dave,

    You DO have a straight-line concept of science. You look to the past, and
    assume that discoveries will continue in the future as they have in the past.
     Riding off in all directions fits the early stages of scientific discovery
    and what happens when a scientific paradigm is confronted with numerous
    intransigent anomalies, as Kuhn pointed out. You seem to imply that such
    riding will continue indefinitely, or until final answers are attained.

    I merely suggested there is another model to consider, a hypothesis, if you
    will, namely, that the overall progress of science will follow an S-shaped
    trajectory, and that eventually it will come to a situation when to advance
    to the next step in discovery requires more resources than society is willing
    to commit, or science is faced with impenetrable mystery in the natural
    order. The search for extraterrestrial intelligent life may be a case in
    point. While single-celled bacterial life may be common in the universe, as
    Brownlee and Ward suggest in their book, RARE EARTH, intelligent life may
    be rare indeed. Discovering the latter may require instruments that are
    technologically beyond human capacity or beyond what society is willing to
    pay for. Communicating with such beings is even more daunting. The curve of
    discovery may flatten our before ever arriving at an answer.

    As long as you continue to postpone making at least preliminary conclusions
    about the limits of science and why we don't know what we would like to know,
    you strike me as having a "science of the gaps" position. That position may
    have worked in the past. There is no guarantee that it will hold in the
    future.

    (snip)

    <<Mutation and selection? No. There has at least to be duplication,
    recombination and other factors. Are they sufficient? I don't know. I
    suspect that the specialists in the area don't yet know. New discoveries
    may produce totally unexpected insights. However, I will say dogmatically
    that all scientific explanation will be in terms of natural events, just
    as the scientific explanation of the Big Bang can only work back as far
    as 10^-43 sec after the event. Calling the Big Bang "creation" is outside
    of the scientific explanation. In the biological area, if the final
    result is that there is no natural explanation, interjecting "miracle" is
    not a part of the scientific discipline.>>

    Of course, scientific explanation will be in terms of natural events--by
    definition. The question is, will our complete understanding of natural
    events be found in science. I hold to a provisional no. I hold that there
    are phenomena that can be identified or inferred by scientific means of
    observation and logic, whose complete explanation tails out beyond science,
    and requires theological of philosophical explanation. The Big Bang is a
    case in point. Calling it "creation" may be unscientific, as you rightly
    point out, but is essential if the full meaning and significance of the
    scientific discovery is to be attained. What do you have, if you only have
    the Big Bang?

    Peace,

    Bob



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Jul 24 2000 - 07:47:37 EDT