Re: natural selection in salvation history (was Johnson//evolutionimplies atheism)

From: Howard J. Van Till (hvantill@novagate.com)
Date: Sat Jul 22 2000 - 08:33:16 EDT

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    Bert,

    >> Bob Dehaan wrote:
    >>
    >> > I would be happy to take
    >> > macroevolution seriously if there were empirical evidence that natural
    >> > selection played a significant *creative* role in it.
    >>
    >> Let me suggest some modification of vocabulary here. I would say that
    >> natural selection does nothing whatsoever that is authentically *creative.*
    >> Rather, it acts as a positive feedback mechanism in the context of a search
    >> program. Briefly here is why I say this:
    >
    > ******
    > Not so fast--Lets substitute for "creative" a different word. Yes, there is
    > undeniably a "potentiality space" of viable creatures. Not an arugement. The
    > issue is that of a mechanism to shuffle the genes of a given animal to move
    > towards the genes of another animal with the second animal having some
    > substantial new feature. Now what is "move towards" and how does this work.
    > Well, "natural selection" is posited as a selection mechanism and, while I do
    > not accept its efficacy in getting the animal through a long path, let me set
    > this aside. What I need is
    >
    > 1. A mechanism that can make substantial genetic changes in step wise fashion.
    >
    > 2. The existence of a gene trajectory path from animal A to animal B with each
    > change being large and benficial enough to modify reproduction rates for the
    > animal with the genetic benefits.
    >
    > 3. A quickly acting mechanism to make this happen which is triggered by
    > something to be identified because the fossil evidence is for stasis with
    > punctuated and rapid changes.
    >
    > What I do not accept is the efficacy of small genetic changes which change the
    > general modifiers of a given body plan (a monkey with a longer tail) as
    implying
    > the exisitence of the above.
    >
    > This is the issue.

    OK, at least we are getting away from the loose and theologically
    provocative use of the word "creative."

    If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that the formational
    capabilities of the Creation are inadequate to accomplish what the
    macro-evolutionary paradigm presently envisions. Or are you saying that if
    the Creation was given a robust formational economy by its Creator, it must
    have important contributions that we have not yet discovered?

    My own expectation is that the Creation was gifted from the outset with a
    robust formational economy (adequate to make the remarkable process of
    macro-evolution possible), much of which remains to be discovered.

    Howard Van Till

    PS: Sorry I won't be able to answer for a couple of weeks.



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