Re: Misc points about Re: intelligent design

From: Bryan R. Cross (crossbr@SLU.EDU)
Date: Mon Jul 03 2000 - 11:51:41 EDT

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    Wendee Holtcamp wrote:

    > (2) I do not believe God wants to be discovered via scientific means.
    > I may be wrong, but it seems that if it were so, there would be no
    > room for faith, which is what the entirety of Scripture's teachings
    > are based upon. This is why I believe - from what I understand of it
    > thus far - ID theory will prove wrong. But then again, you never know.
    > I do know that unless science takes a major leap in anoither
    > direction, the mass of evidence points to evolution via natural
    > selection. Maybe there is some middle ground between ID and evolution.
    > ??

    First, the conflict is not between ID and evolution (a common caricature),
    but between (1) ID and naturalism. Among those opposed to naturalism there
    is a subordinate dispute: (2) between those who believe that intelligent
    design is detectable, and those who do not. The fact that some ID
    proponents believe in the formation of all life-forms from a given initial
    life form via evolution by natural causes demonstrates that ID per se is
    not opposed to evolution per se. Second, faith is not incompatible with
    evidence. Belief in the absence of any evidence is not faith, it is an
    irrational fideism. Even Kierkegaard did not advocate pure fideism (cf. C.
    Stephen Evans's latest book). If faith were incompatible with evidence,
    then Christ did not leave any room for faith in Him, for He provided
    evidence that He was the Christ by (among other things) His signs and
    wonders. Furthermore, there is no fine line between 'scientific evidence'
    and evidence per se. Moreover, one cannot say that evidence X is not
    scientific *just because the majority of scientists reject it*. (The
    majority of people rejected Christ's evidence as well.) If evidence of any
    kind has theological implications, it can always be rejected (as shown by
    the Quine-Duhem thesis), not matter how clear it is. My point is that if
    you claim that the reason that God does not want to be discovered by
    scientific evidence is that He wants to leave room for faith, then to be
    consistent you must say that He does not want to be discovered by *any
    evidence*, for the same reason. But apparently you think God doesn't mind
    being discovered by myriad forms of evidence. You write:

    >I believe in Jesus Christ because the evidence I have seen - in myriad
    >forms - points to the absolute Truth in the Bible, in Jesus teachings,
    >and in the power of the Holy Spirit! I believe in Jesus because
    >evidence points to it being true.

    For some apparently ad hoc reason, in your view, scientific evidence is
    not one of those myriad forms of evidence by which God wants to be
    discovered. Therefore, 'God wants to leave room for faith' is not a good
    reason for your belief that ID is wrong. You seem to think that if
    intelligent design were detected in biology, that would leave no room for
    faith. But that presumes that the intelligent designer must be interpreted
    as the God of the Bible. If intelligent design were detected in biology,
    the identity of the designer(s) would be far from determined. There would
    still be plenty of room for skepticism concerning the existence of the God
    of the Bible, and hence, given your claim above, there would still be
    plenty of room for faith.

    >Why do you think the data doesn't support the theory? I see masses of
    >evidence, and don't see a problem.

    Well, it is not surprising that you don't see a problem if you don't even
    know what "teleology" and "specified complexity" are. You obviously
    haven't read the other side of the story.

    >Bryan,
    >Thanks for your comments on my questions. How exactly do ID proponents
    define "Specified Complex Information"? Sure >genes contain
    >"information" and that info is complex. But ID must have a specific
    definition for SCI.

    Read Bill Dembski's "The Design Inference" (Cambridge University Press,
    1998). I understand your desire to simplify (I do that with my students as
    well), but it is also very easy (and very common) to oversimplify, so I
    recommend reading the original sources.

    best,

    - Bryan



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