Re: Atheistic portrayal of science in popular culture.

From: Dawsonzhu@aol.com
Date: Sun Jun 18 2000 - 20:02:48 EDT

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    Jim Stark wrote:

    << I concur. This is valid justification of science as
    a method or its actual research work and the formation
    of models. However, the books that scientists write are
    not research reports that confine interpretations to
    model limitations. Those books do embrace their personal
    worldviews. They do not fairly separate scientific fact
    from authoritative fact based on a presumed set of model
    limitations. This is what students see more so than the
    technical reports. The worldviews get presented to them
    as science.>>

    As a working scientist, and one who aspires to write
    technical books someday, I through in my two yen....

    No matter what I do, I will have underlining assumptions
    that will seep into my writing. It seems rather unreasonable
    to expect me to write a first chapter of disclaimers about
    by fundamental world view, etc. Even if I did, could I
    really be sure that I even understand clearly my own
    world view? Philosophers who study my writing are
    probably more qualified than myself to make those
    assertions. It is very very difficult for a writer to be
    his/her own editor, and I suspect it would be even more
    difficult for a thinker to critique his/her own thinking.

    <<
    Dave's question:
    > How does one's research change by including religious
    > assumptions?
    Jim's reply:
     This depends on the research project. See my note to
     SteamDoc yesterday. I believe that free will can be
     included in many research projects by just admitting
     possible causes beyond the system. It would allow a
     more realistic interpretation. We need to include the
     concept of agency in scientific models. The scientist
     is the designing agent for the model.
    >>

    Yes, working in the field of biology, I do accept
    evolution (or in some parlance: evilution) as a working
    hypothesis. I accept it because it works (compared to
    other ideas currently available). The place where faith
    comes in for me is that I still believe that God was
    involved. However, that is just it, "faith". If I begin
    to import my "faith" into my science, then I am corrupting
    observation evidence (i.e., something that I can lay on
    the table and your folk and my folk can examine it) with
    my one speculations.

    In this respect, atheists who import their views into their
    work are committing a violation of this rule, but let it
    not be from my pen that I change the fundamental mandate of
    science (laying the articles on the table) into another
    political rally.

    I also object to your requiring "agency" into the matter.
    Agency is a a higher level operation than the process of
    evolution. Unlike the ultra reductionist views of Dawkins
    & co, evolution must ultimately work via chaos, which is
    right in the hands of holistic processes, and consequently,
    not so easily simplified for fascile triumphalism. However,
    the boundary conditions are at the foundation of the world
    (read universe) and not very amenable to testing.

    I think I would rather aspire to the more humble task
    of simply writing what we understand about molecular
    biology, and what the current views are to the best that
    I can understand them, and let the students decide for
    themselves what sort of "faith" they want to put on it.

    Yes, God interacting with nature does imply "agency",
    but only if there is real proof of "design". So far,
    this is my "faith", and faith is not a "proof".
    <<
    Dave wrote:
    > But there is a vast gulf between the models and
    > the worldviews.
    Jim replied:
     Indeed there is! This is an educational problem.
     Authors need to make their worldviews more visible
     to the reader so that they will be unable use
     science to push their pet worldviews.

      .... I did not like it when the instructors
     or professors manipulated science to promote their
     personal worldviews. Gullible students will absorb
     that distortion as scientific fact. You got
     put down if you raised the wrong questions.
    >>

    OK, consider though. Yes, *I* believe in God, but
    suppose that a student in my class believes in Buddha.
    That student will complain that I am inserting my "God"
    into their world view of "Buddha". Likewise, if the
    student does not believe in God, is it any better for
    me to pound the God thing into their brain, or flunk them
    if the say they don't believe? You've got to be fair,
    and Christians (as teachers) have an even heavier weight
    on them, because unlike their atheist buddies, they *are*
    held accountable to God for the way they teach this
    generation. God does not approve repaying evil with evil,
    and harm with harm --- at least, not the last time I
    cracked open my bible. Think about it.

    In grace we do proceed.
    Wayne



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