Adam wrote
<< As is a necessity when pre-modern psychology states our thoughts are in our
hearts, that the Earth is flat, that the Sun moves around us, that hail has
storehouses like the winds, and so forth...
I think Glenn's scenario tries to get geo-history straight but I'm not sure
his hermeneutic works when faced with all the other pre-scientific trappings
of Scripture. Do we defend the rising of the Sun to guarantee the rising of
the Son?
>>
Right on.
<<Who knows what the order is in Job? I'm not sure the book is even by pure
monotheists since some passages are awfully suggestive of Sun-worship [Job
37:21,22.] Is Job about Yahweh or Shamash?>>
I thought you were correlating Job with Gen 1; but, you are right, Job could
have a different order or more likely no order in mind. Job 37:21 sounds
like it is speaking of the sun, but v. 22 says it comes "out of the north"
not likely to refer to the sun. I would have to have something clearer than
that before believing a canon which overall eschews idolatry includes a book
giving Shamash any billing.
to my
>There may have been more than one idea of what the firmament was made of.
> metal or rock. But, the rock concept seems to dominate historically. The
> rock, however, is transparent, crystal, looking like "ice" Ezek 1:22.
(The sapphire seems to be the throne above the firmament, Ez 1:26)>
You replied,
<<But then see Exodus 24:10...>>
I have neglected this Scripture because it does not contain the Hebrew word
for "firmament" so those who do not want to admit the solidity of the
firmament reject it; but, the "brickwork" mentioned is certainly a reference
to the firmament for its position beneath the feet of God is parallel to its
position in Ezek 10:1. The stone of which it is made, however, is described
not as crystal , but as sapphire (probably lapis lazuli). Perhaps the idea
is that the sapphire color of the throne of God above comes through the
translucent crystal, making it look like lapis lazuli. Or, it could just be
a variation. In intertestamental times, some Jews were still wondering what
the firmament was made of, and were pondering if of clay, copper or iron.
So, the only sure thing is that everyone agreed it was solid.
<<A good point. But then how do we apply any of the pre-scientific moral
philosophy of St Paul, especially since his "conscience" idea came from the
Greeks?>>
I do not know the complete answer to this very good question; but, I spent a
year studying the way Jesus used Scripture; and I came to the conclusion
that, like the rabbis, he looked for patterns of revelation, or we might say
topics that are individually woven together. I also like to check empirical
reality since God is the creator. I am confident that we can also inquire of
the Spirit even though our relationship to God is not as pure as that of
Jesus. And, what has the Spirit said through the ages to the Church. In
short, I see in Scripture itself, and perhaps in the Council at Jerusalem's
approach most clearly, that for theological questions we should look not just
to Scripture (which the Council brought in only at the end), but also to
empirical reality (experience), and the voice of the Spirit--both to us and
to the Church as a whole.
Best wishes,
Paul
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