The place of history in Christianity

From: glenn morton (mortongr@flash.net)
Date: Mon Jun 05 2000 - 01:10:55 EDT

  • Next message: George Murphy: "Re: Methane in the late Archean"

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <PHSEELY@aol.com>
    To: <mortongr@flash.net>
    Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 2:44 AM
    Subject: Re: Methane in the late Archean

    > << Or meaningless. Did God accommodate himself to the science in the
    Bhagavad
    > Gita? or the the science of the Dogon peoples? If God accommodates to
    one,
    > what is to keep him from accommodating to all? And it doesn't seem to me
    to
    > be any good to say that the Bible tells us he doesn't accommodate to all
    > because that itself might be an accommodation. >>
    >
    > I have objective evidence that the science in the Bible matches the
    science
    > of the times of the writer(s). I have no evidence to the contrary. From
    an
    > objective point of view I have no choice but to identify the science in
    the
    > Bible (astronomy, geology, biology, etc) as the science of the times. No
    > doubt the same is true of the Bhagavad Gita, or your old favorites the
    Book
    > of Mormon and the Koran. But, this does not logically imply that none of
    them
    > contain true revelation from the true God. It does imply that you cannot
    > distinguish the true revelation from the false by comparing the science in
    > them to modern science.
    >
    > But, the real issue you bring up is history. Christianity distinguishes
    > itself from other religions as being more solidly based in history.

    You forget that historical sciences like geology, paleontology etc tell us
    the real history of the planet. If the Bible is contradictory to the real
    history of the planet, then Christianity can not possibly be more solidly
    based in history than other religions. And if you think that Christianity is
    more founded in history, i.e., more documented, then you haven't ever read
    anything of the Baha'u'llah of the Bahai faith. Here is an extract from a
    web page on him:

    >>>Bahá'u'lláh was born in Persia (now Iran) in 1817 to a family descended
    from royalty. As a young man, He chose to give up the life of luxury, and
    the government career
    that could have been His, to care for the poor. Bahá'u'lláh lived in a time
    of Messianic expectation in many lands. Christians awaited the return of
    Christ. Muslims
    expected the fulfillment of Islamic prophecies. Other religions had similar
    expectations. In 1863 Bahá'u'lláh declared that He was the One promised by
    all religions and
    that God had entrusted Him with a revelation addressing humanity's
    present-day needs. The response to Bahá'u'lláh's announcement during His
    lifetime was dramatic.
    Thousands arose to support His Cause. Others, particularly the Muslim clergy
    and the Persian government, arose to suppress it. His followers were
    persecuted, and
    many were killed. Bahá'u'lláh Himself was banished from Persia to Iraq. This
    was the beginning of forty years of exile, imprisonment, suffering, and
    bitter persecution
    that climaxed with His banishment to the Turkish prison city of Akka in the
    Holy Land. During His years in exile Bahá'u'lláh proclaimed His Mission to
    the leaders and
    peoples of the world in writings containing His Teachings for humanity.<<<

    We have more documentation about him than we do about Christ. We don't know
    the year Christ was born or the year he died--we know that of the
    Baha'u'llah. The first documents about his life were written within 5 years
    of his death--we can't say that for Christianity. If a religion is to be
    true based upon the amount of historical documentation, then the Bahai's win
    hands down. Is this the kind of contest you want between the religions? If
    so, you are on the wrong side.

     However,
    > one cannot assume that the history in the Bible, even though inspired, is
    > better than its available sources.

    Then there is little reason to believe it is inspired other than a warm
    fuzzy feeling in one's gall bladder.

     I see no revelation in Scripture to the
    > effect that God adds to or corrects available human sources. From the OT
    > history books to Luke's preface, the implication is that the history is
    based
    > on human sources. And, if some of those sources are inadequate, as is
    almost
    > bound to be the case regarding prehistory (Gen 1-11), that does not
    logically
    > imply that all of it is false or even most of it. It is all a matter of
    > available sources.
    >

    This sounds so Clintonesque! It doesn't matter that the history Clinton
    presented of l'affaire Lewinsky doesn't make it all false. Jeemenie, surely
    we don't want that for the Scripture do we?

    > Your epistemological concern is valid; but, a biblical epistmology is not
    > purely objective or even ultimately objective. As the apostle Paul says,
    > "that your faith may not be in the wisdom of men, but in the power of
    God."
    > I Cor 2:5 and John 7:17: "Anyone who resolves to do the will of God will
    > know whether the teaching is from
    > God or whether I am speaking on my own."

    If there is not a strong objective component to it, then it is merely a
    great tautology--I believe the Bible because I believe it is true or The
    Bible is inspired because the Bible is inspired. Meaningless circular
    statements!

    glenn

    Foundation, Fall and Flood
    Adam, Apes and Anthropology
    http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm

    Lots of information on creation/evolution



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