Re: Numerics and Applied Apologetics

From: Vernon Jenkins (vernon.jenkins@virgin.net)
Date: Fri Mar 31 2000 - 17:28:35 EST

  • Next message: dfsiemensjr@juno.com: "Re: Numerics and Applied Apologetics"

    For the particular attention of George and Dave:

    I gather from your adverse remarks that neither of you has taken the
    trouble to check the material I have put on line. Is it that you fear
    these facts will challenge your deeply-held views?

    As Christians, you will be aware, of course, that nothing we read in the
    Book of Revelation may be lightly ignored (Rv.22:19). How then do you
    regard Rv.13:18? Is this a bit of 'fun', George? - or a bit of
    'nonsense', Dave? For your information, this bit of 'numerology' (as you
    would, no doubt, call it!) specifies the investigations in which I am
    engaged. I make this point in my new page.

    Rather than barrack from the sidelines, why don't you both get to grips
    with the empirical evidence upon which my claims are founded - and
    attempt to 'shoot me down' by logical argument!

    Vernon

    http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/Symb.htm

    George Murphy wrote:
    >
    > David Campbell wrote:
    > >
    > > > [the numerological evidences] function as a seal that (a) confirms God's
    > > >being and
    > > >sovereignty, (b) speaks of his abiding interest in us, and (c)
    > > >establishes the self-authenticating credentials of his word."
    > > >
    > > >I suggest that such knowledge should cause all who are actively engaged
    > > >in discussing the matter of origins to theorise no more - but rather to
    > > >accept, and build upon, this solid foundation. Are we now really to
    > > >believe that this God is incapable of doing precisely what he tells us
    > > >he did at the beginning? [And besides, where do we find solid empirical
    > > >evidence to the contrary? Let's be honest, hasn't it all so far been a
    > > >matter of naturalistic interpretation and conjecture?]
    >
    > Fun is fun, but there comes a time when it's necessary to be blunt. Claiming
    > numerological fantasies as a "solid foundation" for anything is just silly, the more so
    > when it's used as a way of short-circuiting serious biblical interpretation and serious
    > science. I guess Mr. Jenkins is free to post what he wishes but it seems to me that
    > it would be better for the rest of us to leave this severely alone.
    >
    > George L. Murphy
    > gmurphy@raex.com
    > http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

    On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:41:56 -0500 George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com>
    writes:
    > David Campbell wrote:
    > >
    > > > [the numerological evidences] function as a seal that (a)
    > confirms God's
    > > >being and
    > > >sovereignty, (b) speaks of his abiding interest in us, and (c)
    > > >establishes the self-authenticating credentials of his word."
    > > >
    > > >I suggest that such knowledge should cause all who are actively
    > engaged
    > > >in discussing the matter of origins to theorise no more - but
    > rather to
    > > >accept, and build upon, this solid foundation.
    >
    > Fun is fun, but there comes a time when it's necessary to be
    > blunt. Claiming
    > numerological fantasies as a "solid foundation" for anything is just
    > silly, the more so
    > when it's used as a way of short-circuiting serious biblical
    > interpretation and serious
    > science. I guess Mr. Jenkins is free to post what he wishes but it
    > seems to me that
    > it would be better for the rest of us to leave this severely alone.
    >
    I have noted that many who have "discovered" some esoteric approach are
    certain that it provides a sure basis for faith. The religious approach
    of these folks seems to force them to the position that they are serving
    God with their gnostic flair. I recall a chap who wrote a book on
    pyramidology, declaring it an evidence that would strengthen the faith
    of
    Christian believers. Of course, he had to juggle the units of
    measurement
    to make things come out. Later he became obsessed with the moon and the
    fact that it is "exactly" the right size to eclipse the sun (neglecting
    annular eclipses, of course) as somehow demonstrating God's perfect
    work.
    He further ties the circumference of the moon to the New Jerusalem
    (Revelation 21), despite the statement that the city is square (v. 16).
    To make the perimeter and circumference come out, he adopts English
    units
    rather than ancient ones for the city, and fudges the lunar diameter.
    Despite the impossibility of a circle being a square and the need for
    finaggling, he makes this garbage too a support for faith.

    Other esoteric approaches, like numerology, the Bible code and their
    ilk,
    seem to produce a kind of mania or obsession. It doesn't have to be
    religious: witness the attempts to discover the Shakespearean authorship
    via hidden ciphers. All provide the inerrant interpretation, the
    ultimate
    truth and, within the religious, the certain foundation for faith. It
    appears that they can no more help themselves than a dipsomaniac can
    avoid drinking. Consequently, I have to agree with your advice to ignore
    the nonsense, though I may suggest a slightly different approach: Flush
    it!

    Dave



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