Re: Another apologetical mess up--CO2 in atmosphere

From: glenn morton (mortongr@flash.net)
Date: Sun Mar 26 2000 - 06:52:55 EST

  • Next message: Moorad Alexanian: "Re: Possible impact of ID"

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Adam Crowl" <qraal@hotmail.com>

    > Hi ASA
    >
    > I think one of the most annoying things about Creationist rhetoric is the
    > way it confuses the appearance of a phyla, regardless of how "primitive"
    the
    > initial examples might be, with the modern article. Like Phyla have not
    > evolved over time - as palaeontologists have been aware since last
    century.

    You are correct that the family, genera and species of the Cambrian phyla
    are totally different from those alive today and this is something that is
    entirely overlooked by many apologetical organizations. On my web page I
    have the fish genera by period. Note that none of the living genera exist
    prior to the Jurassic.

    youngest period # Fish genera # living genera # extinct genera

    Recent 3245 3245 0
    Pleistocene 422 408 14
    Pliocene 416 372 44
    Miocene 496 320 176
    Oligocene 321 207 114
    Eocene 398 157 241
    Paleocene 124 53 71
    Cretaceous 340 38 302
    Jurassic 146 5 141
    Triassic 175 0 175
    Permian 86 0 86
    Pennsylvanian 106 0 106
    Mississippian 163 0 163
    Devonian 524 0 524
    Silurian 57 0
    57
    Ordovician 5 0 5
    Cambrian 1 0 1

    But apologetical messups from RTB go on and on. in the same issue of
    Connections, Hugh Ross has an article that says that the atmospheric
    composition is finely tuned by the rates of subduction. He says:

        "As more and more of the sun's fuel (hydrogen) ignites, the sun glows
    brighter and brighter. At the same time, heat-trapping gases in Earth's
    atmosphere (carbon dioxide and water vapor) get transferred, by organisms,
    fromthe atmosphere to the crust. IN this amazing 'double coincidence,'
    Earth's decreased heat trapping efficiency exactly compensates for increased
    solar brightness so that EArth's surface temperature remains ideal for life.
        "For some time scientists have been aware that this cycle demands
    fine-tuned balancing fo erosion rates, plate tectonic activity, volcanic
    activity, and, of course, the quantity and kinds of life on the planet
    through time. The most recent research reveals in addition, the delicacy
    ofthe rate at which Earth's crust plates, particularly the ocean-floor crust
    plates, move beneath or 'subduct,' below the plates they collide with." Hugh
    Ross, "Earth's Carefully Crafted Crust," Connections 1st qtr 2000, p. 2

    He then says:

        "Again, research produced a bonus. It just so happens that a dehydration
    process at work in the downward-moving slabs leads to production of a talc
    layer that both lowers and stabilizes the sliding friction of adjoinging
    tectonic plates. This friction reduction and stabilization lowers the
    earthquake risk to advanced life.
        "The more we learn about what is required to keep life goiing for the
    past 3.86 billion years, the more evidence we see that a Supernature shaped
    nature."Hugh Ross, "Earth's Carefully Crafted Crust," Connections 1st qtr
    2000, p. 2

    The only article he cites is Stephen H. Kirby, "Taking the Temperature of
    Slabs", Nature 403(2000):31-34. Reading that article there is no mention
    whatsoever of the sun, atmospheric composition or the removal of greenhouse
    gases from the atmosphere to the crust. Indeed, subduction really has
    little to do with the scrubbing of the atmsophere of greenhouse gases like
    CO2. Here is a tabulation of the CO2 content of the atmosphere through
    geologic time. The first number is the age (millions of years ago) and the
    second number is the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere compared to the present
    day atmosphere. The present atmosphere is 1 on this scale.

    co2 in atmosphere
    myr 1=present atsosphere
    570 5.28
    560 6.52
    550 7.24
    540 10.60
    530 13.96
    520 17.82
    510 16.16
    500 14.37
    490 14.11
    480 14.00
    470 14.53
    460 15.04
    450 14.24
    440 13.43
    430 12.78
    420 11.83
    410 10.68
    400 9.09
    390 8.10
    380 9.14
    370 10.11
    360 9.85
    350 8.51
    340 3.54
    330 1.78
    320 1.25
    310 1.01
    300 0.90
    290 0.94
    280 0.91
    270 1.07
    260 1.26
    250 1.34
    240 1.49
    230 1.66
    220 2.11
    210 2.15
    200 2.06
    190 2.02
    180 2.10
    170 2.18
    160 2.25
    150 2.15
    140 1.82
    130 2.19
    120 2.20
    110 2.07
    100 1.78
    90 1.63
    80 1.58
    70 1.41
    60 1.26
    50 1.27
    40 1.19
    30 1.13
    20 1.12
    10 1.02
    0 .97

    Robert A. Berner, "A Model for Atmospheric CO2 over Phanerozoic Time,"
    American Journal of Science, 291(1991):339-376, p. 371

    While the sun is believed to have simply increased in brightness throughout
    geologic time, one can immediately see that the atmospheric CO2 in the late
    precambrian (570 myr ago) was 5 times the present level which then increased
    to almost 18 times the present value by 520 million years ago. The
    plummeting value of CO2 in the atmosphere between 350 myr ago and 320
    million years ago concerns NOT subduction but the rise of the coal swamps
    and the massive burial of organic carbon in the form of peat which occurred
    at that time. Fine-tuning has nothing to do with it.

    By 270 myr ago when the atmospheric CO2 was about at present levels, the
    earth began to freeze again as glaciers covered large parts of the earth.
    The volcanism associated with the breakup of Pangea which began at 250 myr
    ago and continued and increased through the Cretaceous pumped lots of CO2
    into the atmosphere which caused the content to rise to around twice the
    present level. (see Robert A. Berner Geocarb II, American Journal of Science
    294(1994):56-91 esp. p. 71 fig. 3)

    About 50 million years ago, the CO2Curve takes a dive. This is due to the
    rise of the Tibetan plateau. It is the most effective CO2 scrubber in
    today's atmosphere. Raymo and Rudman state:

     "On the basis of these and similar observations, we propose that late
    Cenozoic uplift of the Himalayan region and Tibetan plateau would have
    resulted in regionally, and hence globally higher chemical erosion rates,
    causing a drawdown of atmospheric CO2 and global cooling. The timing of this
    tectonically driven CO2 decrease should be post-Eocene, coincident with the
    formation of the Tibetan plateau and in agreement with geological evidence
    for when global cooling was most rapid." M. E. Raymo and W. F. Ruddiman,
    "Tectonic forcing of Late Cenozoic Climate," Nature, 359(1992):117-122, p.
    119
    **
    "Over the past 700 Myr, only two other time periods were characterized by
    Tibetan-size plateaux, the late Precambrian and the late Palaeozoic; these
    were also intervals of widespread continental glaciation. IN summary,
    despite the continuous presence throughout geological history of high
    mountain terrain along the convergent margins of the world, it may be the
    rarer occurrence of plateaux that can drive climate away from steady state
    and decouple rates of horizontal and vertical tectonic movement."
     "We propose that over the past 40 Myr, uplift of the Tibetan plateau has
    resulted in stronger deflections of the atmospheric jet stream, more intense
    monsoonal circulation, increased rainfall on the front slopes of Himalayas,
    greater rates of chemical weathering and, ultimately, lower atmospheric CO2
    concentrations. These changes in climate may initiate strong positive
    feedbacks to global cooling through glacier-driven erosion." M. E. Raymo and
    W. F. Ruddiman, "Tectonic forcing of Late Cenozoic Climate," Nature,
    359(1992):117-122, p. 122

    In short, the entire idea that continental subduction is responsible for the
    atmospheric CO2 content is not borne out by the data of geology. The CO2
    levels of the atmosphere over the past 600 myr has stumbled around like a
    drunken sailor. The sun's brightness on the other hand, has increased
    linearly over time. The atmospheric CO2 mechanisms show little sign of the
    fine-tuning that Ross imagines.

    I do wish christian apologists would do a better job of understanding the
    complexities of the field they are writing about.

    glenn

    Foundation, Fall and Flood
    Adam, Apes and Anthropology
    http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm

    Lots of information on creation/evolution



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