Joel Z Bandstra wrote:
>
> Not sure I understand what Bosons have to do with the dice experiment (see
> below). The particles are distinguishable!
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The Universe started with indistinquisable particles but now there are
complex things which are distinguisable.
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> Anyway, there exists a wealth of literature on complexity and self
> organization.
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A wealth of literature is to be found on any viewpoint however good or
crazy. There has been a lot of criticism of that literature as well and
I trust you are suitably informed. The Universe is complex and this
does not prove that life and its complex systems arrose from random
processes or some "self organizing principle". What I think you are
proposing is that there is some un-specified law of organization yet to
be discovered.
The issues as I tried to illustrated with the dice is that with large
numbers of randoam events that you can find some "specified complex"
events. This does not argue for the level of complextity that is found
in life nor does it give us the path to this complexity. So the
ultimate point is that if we find some things here and there with a
little organization we should not be surprised. The jump to life is
very substantial however.
What I want to know about is not that a wealth of literature exists I
allready know that. I also do not care if some complex things exist
which appear from some random events and driven by some proposed
organizing principle. (It is certainly not non-linear differential
equations which in many instances relate to dissapative processes.) I
also know already that some see "promising" theories and have the belief
that the road ahead is clear and just a matter of time.
What I ask for is a detailed description of how for example something
with as many proteins and processes as the Behe example of a flagellum
arrose.
What were the intermediate steps?
What was the adaptive value of each?
What was the genetic changes that could make these steps?
(You must show that a coding exists for each of the steps.)
What is the evidence that these steps occurred?
It is really a question of degree as I see it and this was the point on
the dice and certainly the point of Behe. Some specified complex things
are expected to occur randomly but some are not and the issue is the
level of complexity.
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An author that I have found particularly useful in my own
> research is J P Crutchfield, for an easy read see the article by this
> author in Physica D v. 75 pp 11-54. A book which might be useful is
> "Complexity, Entropy, and the Physics of Information" Edited by W. H.
> Zurek and published by Addison Wesley. I don't expect people (Bert Massie
> included) to accept self-organization simply on the word of a bunch of
> crazy haired physicists
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I will pray for the return of my hair.
Self organization to what level of complexity???
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Bert M
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